Posted by: Jay | September 17, 2007

Conversion Stories

I am always interested in how people came to have a testimony of the LDS Church (or any church for that matter). As I mentioned in a past post, when I was a ward mission leader I went around interviewing converts about how they came to be members. I asked stefielynn, who has made many recent comments, to share her conversion story with us. Feel free to ask her any questions about the experience.

P.S. If someone would like to share their conversion story to the LDS Church or any other church (Christian or non-Christian) send your story to mormonstalk@gmail.com. I will periodically post stories I receive.

My first interaction with the Mormon church was through by best friend in 2nd grade. She was Mormon and I was Lutheran. My parents did not seem to have much of an issue at this time with the Mormon religion. I spent a lot of time with my little friend and her family. I remember her family being so close, it was obvious that they loved each other very much and they always included me and made me feel loved as well. My family was extremely disfunctional. There was always a lot of yelling and not a whole lot of love.

For 2 years everything was fine and Dandy. Around the beginning of 4th grade I came home from school and my parents sat me down to have a talk. They informed me that a lady from our church had a son that was stolen by the Mormons. They told me it was a bad cult, and they didn’t want me to be stolen, so I was no longer allowed to be Sierra’s friend. This was totally confusing, scary and devastating. I pictured Sierra’s family throwing me in a van and stealing me away to some far off place and never seeing my family again. Of course at this age I did as my parents asked. They even sent me to school with a bible and a scripture in revelations. I was really sad that I couldn’t be her friend anymore. I asked my parents a lot of questions as to why. They told me that Mormons believed they Jesus and Satan were brothers and that Joseph Smith the founder was a liar and a cheater and they believe in magic underwear. They also explained to me that they believed in a different God and Jesus and that Mormons will go to hell when they die and burn for eternity. This did not sound like a good thing, so I stopped asking questions and stayed as far away from her as I could.

When I went to High school I met a few more of these Mormons, and even though I tried to stay away it was a little more difficult. I had a few on my cheerleading squad my senior year and one of them became my very good friend. I tried not to get too close to her, but she was so sweet and fun It became impossible. I never asked any questions about her church, but she would always invite me to her activities, and of course I didn’t want to burn in hell with her so I declined. During High School, I remember only two people who were there for me, and they both happened to be Mormon. I remember asking my mom why Mormons, who were such good people, would go to hell. She told me again that they believed in a false Jesus and that they were a cult.

So eight years later who knocks on the door, but 2 Mormon missionaries. I at this time decided to find out from an actual Mormon what exactly they believed. Our first lesson began with me asking a thousand questions. I told them that I believed in a different Jesus and that they believed in the wrong one and that they were going to burn in hell if they didn’t except the “real” one. I went over with them all the things my parents had taught me. They were kind and they listened. I asked them to tell me what they believed and back it up with scripture, which they did. Every time they would leave they asked if I would pray and ask if it was true for myself…which I did not do. I told my family I was having Mormon missionaries coming over and they FREAKED! They told me to stop having discussions because I would be brainwashed. They also started sending me info about the church. I went against the influence of my family and continued my discussions. But I read as much as I could on the LDS church. Most of it was against the church. The only positive stuff I read about the church was given to me by the missionaries. I read about Joseph Smith and polygamy, I read about the Mountain Meadows massacre, I read about their disbelief in the Trinity and how they believed they would become gods of their own planets. I became very conflicted. What the missionaries were teaching me made sense to me. I read and I read and I read. I became more and more confused. I wrestled with this issue for a long time. I did not want to join the LDS church, I most certainly did not want to burn in Hell. I was so confused and in need of an answer. I got on my knees and I started crying. I cried and poured my heart out to the Lord. I looked up and asked Him. He brought peace like I had never known into my soul. I called the missionaries and informed them that I wanted to be baptized.

The hardest thing for me to get over was the fear of burning in Hell for eternity. I would have thought it impossible to get over. But it was not me who took that fear away. The fear left me when I prayed. And even though I hear it all the time from both family and people I randomly encounter, I just smile inside and remember that I once, was just like them.

My family is extremely upset. They are worried about my soul. But I know that this Gospel is indeed true. I know that my Father in Heaven answered my prayers and healed my heart. There are many people out there who believe as I once did, and as my family still does. Many people (both members and nonmembers) cannot get over some of the history of the church and that is understandable. But I knew all these things when I joined. As weird as it may seem, all the history is frivolous, compared to the change that occurred in my heart. I know that throughout church history mistakes have been made. Joseph Smith was a man. I don’t worship Joseph Smith. I worship my Heavenly Father and His Son Jesus Christ and I cannot imagine where I would be without the Gospel in my life.

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Responses

  1. Elder Joseph, I wanted to ask you a few things about some of your comments and I ask you to read my conversion story because it has a lot to do with what you have been talking about.

    In one comment you state:
    “They are pretending to be like other christian churches and don’t reveal their true doctrines until one is sucked in through love bombing and friendshipping …then you get conditioned once you are in ..”

    I was raised anti, 26 years later I was taught by missionaries. I knew 95% of the negative things about the church…YET I still joined. The reason I joined was not because of “love bombing and friendshipping, but because of an answered prayer. The last thing I wanted to do was be Mormon!

    In another comment you state,
    “This church destroys a lot of lives and breaks families up .. ”

    This gospel has changed my life, It has saved my marriage and saved my family!

    The last thing I want to touch on right now is this, when you say,
    “…thanks as I’m trying to help a friend see through it all , maybe you can help me on the approach .Her family have been sad for the last 17 yrs while she has been a church member .She believes she is in Gods only church , what can you do”

    My family is sad too. But if she believes what she is doing is right and she believes it’s true then who the heck are you to destroy that? My family has been trying to “save” me since I joined the church, and I know their intentions are good, however, I know this is where I am supposed to be and this is where the Lord wants me.

    YOU believe it is false, BUT I (and many others) believe it is true. Why is YOUR belief right, and MY belief wrong??????

    • Please look at Gordan B Hinkleys response 1998 in Switzerland about Jesus. He said that the Jesus of the Bible and the Jesus of the Book of Morman is different. That the Bible is not credible because it is so old and the book of Morman is the best and most accurate. God doesn’t change and if God is who he says he is his word will remain to the end. I am not mocking any Morman but I would like you to just check the facts. If the Bible is not accurate and the Jesus of the Bible is not the true Jesus what do you believe. Salvation is a gift not something given to all but only those who accept. Read the book of Romans and Mark 12:23-25 There will not be marriage in Heaven. Please check your Bible and decide for your self.

  2. Steff I know that you directed these questions to E.J. but I just wanted to say something.

    I dont think it is that your belief is wrong and his is right… I dont believe it is as black or white as that…

    When you first came to believe that the church was true, did you want to share that with the people that you loved?

    Now… if you found out that your daughter had been taken advantage of, would you share that or keep it a secret for the benefit of the family?

    Now I know that the analogy has its flaws but hear me out here… THere are those of us who feel very betrayed by the church… you had the advantage of being a convert, learning all the junk about the church first and accepting it anyway… for some of us, we dont have that luxury… we are raised Mormon, taught Mormon and have the most overwhelming drive to be a certain way…

    I have seen first hand some of the things that E.J. is talking about and I have seen first hand things that you are talking about.

    He wants to help his friend, you want to help yours, the church is good for you, not for him. It is a gray area… you can agree to disagree on this with me or with E.J. but just consider it.

    Oh by the way… I was that little mormon girl, not with you obviously… but Iwas the little girl who had friends leave becasue she was a mormon, you have no idea how confusing that is for a little person… to be rejected for your religion. No other explaination other than,

    “you are mormon and we cant be friends any more”

    That really sucked!

  3. Cherryn,

    You say “When you first came to believe that the church was true, did you want to share that with the people that you loved?”

    YES! I want to share it with the world, I want to sing it from the roof top!

    Then you say “Now… if you found out that your daughter had been taken advantage of, would you share that or keep it a secret for the benefit of the family?”

    I get what you are trying to say, If I was to find out the church wasn’t true, as I thought, I would not hesitate leaving and sharing my findings with others. BUT to me the church is based on FAITH and cannot be PROVEN true OR false.

    I share the gospel with my friends and family and I leave it up to them to figure out if it is true or not. I DO share with them the history, both the positive and the negative. I share my story with those who will listen and they can choose to believe it or not, I never push.

    I cannot imagine how sad and confusing it must have been to have friends, not allowed to be your friend, because you were mormon! However I do know the otherside of it and it was just as sad and confusing. I fear for my children because of my experience, I don’t ever want them to feel the pain you or I felt! (we live in the “bible belt and there is a lot of hatred towards mormons) But I believe it all stems from ignorance and confusion regarding what we truely believe. I wish there were more people of ALL faiths that believe as YOU do, that we should all be kind and loving no matter what faith you belong to!!! ( I feel that way as well!)

    So maybe I’m right and maybe EJ is right (and maybe neither of us) but I don’t believe either of us can PROVE anything so we should definetly agree to disagree. But I feel people like EJ should stop giving opinion as fact, that is WHY there is so much confusion and people are so afraid of us mormons!

    I will keep sharing my story and hope that others will find the happiness and the peace that I have found because of this gospel!

  4. You are right, religion is about faith, faith in things felt and not seen. All religion had that and it brings a lot f happiness.

  5. Steffie,

    Thanks for your story? What’s your husbands story? Did he get baptized as well?

    Before your conversion, how active were you in your Protestant church (scale of 1-10)?

  6. Steffielynn

    Firstly I do believe your conversion story … but you spoke about your backround of fear of hell for people not of your lutheran faith?

    I’ve never feared hell , never been threatened by any religious family , always had good family , with honesty, no divorce , no infidelity ..etc Perfect Mormon aspiration type family ….:)

    My backround is different , I’ve never felt unloved but always felt loved and wanted and precious to my close family and friends ..

    Mormonism has nothing to offer that I haven’t already got ,, except I admit i have taken on word of wisdom , it failed in its spiritual promise ( but for health reasons now I will keep it ) ….

    I think your experience is typical of many converts , a less fortunate backround and circumstance shall we say ….. I call this vulnerability , had your backround been different then you may not have felt the desire to join ?

    So I don’t believe God answered you literally but you interpreted a feeling of joy as this in my opinion … same with other religious people who convert ..I’ve met muslim converts , krishna converts , all the same thing ..

    I’ve never heard God communicate with me yet I trust him to be fair with me and others of a different belief ….. My desires are just the same as the Mormons . When I fisrt came to LDS church I felt I had found Home ! But I was concerned at the pressure to baptise when I had little understanding ? Now I see how it all works .. its very scary . I didn’t know they were all meeting and discussing how to get me baptised !

    My issue is with Information and Honesty and motives .My ex missionary friend ? She knows nothing of the real history and naively believes that I’m mistaken .. Its only right that I share my reasons and concerns as to why I didn’t join and then she can decide if they are valid and affect her the same way … She is better off with her real family and not ‘conditional’ one ….Look at all the exmormons , how grateful they are to have been ‘informed’ even though at the time many would have reacted angrily at first..

    There is a big reason why all the inactives and ex members are making big efforts to inform us all of the real history and its not ‘satan’motivating them … Where I see lies and deception I see satan and lots of it with JW’s as a youth ..

    Well The Church has ignored my enquiry of two months ago about church statistics and member ship figures despite all my TBM’s telling me the church has nothing to hide . Si i’ve tried again and I know the outcome .. They don’t want us know the real state of affairs and resignations … Its not good PR .

  7. E J, you say:

    “I think your experience is typical of many converts , a less fortunate backround and circumstance shall we say ….. I call this vulnerability , had your backround been different then you may not have felt the desire to join ?”

    E.J. It was not because of my circumstances that I joined the church, I joined because of a prayer that was answered.

    I didn’t desire to join the LDS church and had I not recieved a clear answer I would NOT have joined!!!!

    My circumstances seem to me to be more of a preparation. My family and my experiences strenghtened me and prepared me for things to come later in life. Just because I had a crappy up bringing doesn’t make me vulnerable, but it did make me untrusting and extremly skeptical!

    It was a huge obstical to overcome my past and change my ways! Personally I prefer my experiences to those who had it easy, because I am a better stronger happier person! Vulnerable is something I am not! The fact that the church and it’s members are so amazing is just a huge bonus! The fact that I am loved and not judged is a total blessing but it is not WHY I was baptized. I didn’t even know these people (the members) when I joined!

    You are missing a large piece of the picture and maybe it’s because i’m not telling it correctly, I don’t know, But it is the GOSPEL that I love, the gospel is what has changed me.

    The 2nd time I attended church it was fast and testimony meeting (I had no idea what this service was all about,) I went up and infront of 200 strangers, I told them what had happened to me the week before and that I knew this church was infact true, The missionaries had no idea,(I had no idea,) I would be getting up, but I had to express my love and my grattitude for the gospel. These people did not know me and I did not know them. So my point is the love I received from these people came after my experiences, not before.

    I see the point you are trying to make but you cannot explain away what happened to myself and my family!

    Speaking of family I will now answer Tim’s question:

    I was very active as a child/ teenager. Then I stopped going to the church of my youth and started attending a non denominational. Since my Husband and I moved a lot we were able to attend many different churches and denominations, but we never found one we felt was right. (I also worked for many Christian based organizations) In my childhood I was baptized at 11. As an adult I went up to MANY alter calls, probably at ever church I ever attended. So I was scattered amongst many churches, sometimes active sometimes not. (so on a scale I would have to say I was a 5)

    My husband did get baptized as well, on the same day. I actually pushed my baptism back a week so we could be baptized together. (He wasn’t too sure he could give up beer). He is an easy going awesome guy and is not as vocal about the church as I am but he loves it as much as I do. Maybe I can even get him to write a little bit about his experiences on here!

  8. steffielynn

    I must admit I’m mystified at your conversion story .. I have heard similar things from one or two of my ward members ( girls again ) …..

    I can’t really dispute what you have experienced except perhaps to think you may be emotionally mistaken ..

    You say
    ” But it is the GOSPEL that I love, the gospel is what has changed me”

    But this Gospel is actually Families will be polygamous forever and we have to obey Gods voice through his Priesthood ranks and not of our conscience or spirit …

    This is how Brigham and Joseph were able to coerse young girls into this practice through Power and Authority which I believe they never had .They were just self righteous arrogant bigots.

    Polygamy is the order and doctrine of the church , I’ve asked many male members about it and no one denies it .The only reason you are not involved in it now is because of the Law …. …

    Wilford Woodruffs declaration is only a temporary suspension ..

    Perhaps we should have respect for Warren Jeffs for upholding Gods order then and having the courage to defy mans law and follow Gods supposed law as in D&C section 132 …..

    Have you ever faced up to the Journal Of Discourses and read what these prophets and apostles were really saying and thinking and practicing …..

    If this makes you happy then be happy . But it doesn’t make me happy ,it depresses me to death knowing what these early female converts were up against and went through and to see the same church puposely erase their memories from all the Church Manuals , Ensigns , Talks , DVD’s etc and worse still never even acknowledge their existence ……

    .have a look on the official church website http://www.josephsmith.net

    no mention of any other wives except Emma ..

    It has his letters to Emma but not his love letters to the others like to Newel K. Whitney’s daughter Sarah Ann (aged 17)telling her not to be caught or seen by Emma when she comes to meet him ….

    and this GOSPEL makes you happy ?

    My ex missionary friend got ripped off of all her life savings because she trusted a priesthood holder , yet she will be taught its to ‘prove’ you , its for a reason we all go through tests in life ….. when the real reason was she was stupid to trust a church meber naively …..

    She hasn’t actually admitted it was a church member but thats because she knows its not faith promoting for me .I’ve asked her many times and she’ll never answer this …so I’m certain it was …

    Then I find out her Branch president stole members tithes and oferings ….. and again she hid this from me ….

    and she is still always seeking advice from the Priesthood .She has very little/nothing in life as a result of this church and thinks its all from God and must wonder when a blessing will finally arrive ..

    Well it has … When I’ve shown her what the church really is then she can start to learn to trust herself and make her own decisions again and not follow this system anymore …

    Mormonism will never be accepted like you want it to be and don’t be surprised at this .

    Yes I speak highly of church members and defend them myself as individuals , however I won’t defend the mechanism and system of subtle deception , whitewashing of history, and misrepresentation of the origins of the church .

    The very factors that caused Jay to put up his blog in the first place …..

  9. EJ,
    Let’s say, for example, that the Church did talk about polygamy. Let’s say they included Brigham Young’s wives and Joseph Smith’s wives in the Church manuals. The Church might then be accused of promoting polygamy. It is a very fine line they walk and either way they go critics will not be happy.

    The Journal of Discourses like many other publications at that time contains a lot of thoughts and speculations of Prophets and Apostles in regard to spiritual things. While they may have been thinking and teaching these things, they were not doctrine. Any church that declares every statement made by past leaders as doctrine will be in trouble. The fact that LDS leaders claim to be Prophets, Apostles, or Seventies doesn’t exempt them from misunderstanding the things of God. I think the statements that Brigham Young and others made (some despicable) were made in ignorance, not maliciously with an intent to harm or deceive. Unfortunately, IMO, members look up to the prophet to the extent that they believe everything he says without studying/praying for themselves (a.k.a. being lazy). This is why people, even today, believe the bigoted/erroneous words of past leaders and don’t question anything. Of course there is also the element of, if you question a leader your in apostasy. If you say something that contradicts a leader that is somehow bad even though you may except them as a prophet. However, you must be true to your own conscience. If something the prophet says bugs you, try to find out if it is based in scripture come to your own conclusion based on prayer and study. Don’t just accept what bothers you.

  10. Jay ,

    You said :

    “Let’s say, for example, that the Church did talk about polygamy. Let’s say they included Brigham Young’s wives and Joseph Smith’s wives in the Church manuals. The Church might then be accused of promoting polygamy. It is a very fine line they walk and either way they go critics will not be happy.”

    If they told the truth of their beliefs then hardly anyone would join in the first place and many members who still haven’t a clue would leave ..

    This is not choice for many people .This is serious deception what they are doing .Its like a kind of Totalitarianism and Communism …

    Its simply deception .This is a church which hides its REAL beliefs …..

    No one would critisize them for being honest , the wholepoint is they are subtly dishonest ……Look at the amout of previously faithfull members who leave when they realise the exact nature of this religion .Exmormon.org is full of them and I believe that you’ll be joining them sometime in the future …. :)

  11. Jay…

    What you say is true, we all shouldbe asking in prayer if these things (said by leaders) are true… however, as a member born into the church you are taught from a very young age to follow the prophet “HE KNOWS THE WAY” we are inundated with messages about how we should not question the teachings, we should accept everything given to use from these men as gospel..

    I have even been told on multiple occasions that we take the ensign esp conf edition, to be litteral modern day scripture. That we should study what our past prophets have given us and be diligent in following their counsel…

    I know you understand the mixed message here, and what you say is very true, we should be asking constantly… but it is a little … okay hugely… confusing to go against those teachings.

    1) So… we are to follow the prophet(s) seers and revelators, and our local leaders…

    2) We are not to question because that is openning the door for Satan to be in our hearts

    3) Questioning the prophet is apostacy

    4) yet we must ask for ourselves…

    What happens then when we do not agree… well we keep silent becasue we do not want to be apostate.

    Honestly, all my life I have been told that what the phrophets give us in modern day revelation, and that everything previous prophets have said is absolutely true and as correct as we could hope for, that what they give us is modern day scripture…what the leaders (12 & 70) give us is doctrine. They have sought the direction from God to bring us enlightenment.

    You see that when we examine what past leaders and current leader have given us, there are HUGE gaping holes… So what do we believe then…??

    It is very confusing.

  12. EJ,
    I can’t look at how many leave because there are no numbers. I do know that in all my ward there have been at least 1/3 of the members less-active. However, most of them stopped coming for reasons other than Church history or doctrine. It was more rare to run into someone that had problems with the Church itself. I think the reason why it looks like a lot of people online is because the ones that are angry with the LDS Church are the most vocal about it. The majority of members that leave are indifferent toward the Church and therefore just leave without the big fuss.

    Will I become an ex-Mormon? I certainly hope not. Most people I have met that identify themselves as ex-Mormons are bitter and angry, that’s not what I want to be. But if I do leave it will be because I found something better. So far that hasn’t happened and I honestly can’t see it happening because every Christian denomination I know about has problems with its past that potentially discredit its validity. For now I’m comfortable saying that I believe in Christ and his teachings. I think Mormons do just as good of a job teaching about Jesus as any other denomination.

    Cherryn,
    I understand your confusion. I was also “born in the covenant”. It’s hard to accept that a prophet isn’t all we’ve been built up to believe, but that’s just the way things are. It’s kind of like when you finally figure out that your Mom and Dad don’t know everything and sometimes they wing it. I’m not saying to question everything (most of what is taught is good), I’m just saying question the things that rub you the wrong way. If something doesn’t sound right you have to take the initiative to figure it out and maybe after you’ve done that you won’t agree with what was said/done and that’s OK.

  13. E.J.

    If, when I die, and my Heavenly Father does infact want us to live in polygamous relationships, then I will obey without question. Is this really the way it will be? I don’t know, and I wont know til I get there. I know He has reasons for things and I know He will have all of our best intrests in mind. This is obviously not something we can comprehend so it really doesn’t bother me like it does you.

    You feel that Joseph and Brigham were “self righteous arrogant bigots”

    I ask you Elder Joseph did you know either of these men PERSONALLY?????

    I can say I didn’t know them, but I believe that they were good men of God. I choose to believe that they were true prophets despite the hateful things people say about them. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, There are 2 sides to a story, I choose to believe the stories of those who loved him. He even said himself that he was not perfect,

    “Although I do wrong, I do not the wrongs that I am charged with doing; the wrong that I do is through the frailty of human nature, like other men. No man lives without fault.”

    He also said his name would be known for good and evil.

    I know it as good, you know it as evil. BUT neither of us knew him, to say the things you do about him is strictly YOUR opinion, as well as the way I feel about him it is MY opinion.

    The thing I think you really don’t get is that I do not worship Joseph Smith, do I think he was a great man? YES, but that is all. I worship my Father in Heaven, and His Son Jesus Christ, who was the ONLY perfect person on the face of the Earth.

    There were MANY prophets and apostles who made errors, and I’m sure Joseph made his fair share.

    I’m sorry your friend had money stolen but again, if it was a priesthood holder he is human, (and of course he did a bad thing.) I know of a few who do not live the way they should, but does this make the church untrue, NO! Priesthood holders will have a tougher judgment then others and he will have to answer for his own bad deeds!

    But I also know a whole lot of wonderful priesthood holders who will give you the shirt off their back! These men hold a VERY special place in my heart and I respect them so much for there service and love!

    I know Mormonism will not be accepted like I want it to, for “Straight is the Gate and narrow the path…and few there be that enter….” But I would LOVE for everyone to have the knowledge that I have. And I would love for EVERYONE to have a whole and joyful heart! That is why I share my experience. It’s just wishful thinking to wish people would be more accepting, it would make for a nicer world :)

    We do agree on one thing though (yah!) and that is that the church should be more open and teach the Missionaries the dark parts of history (even the things that are just speculation) so that they will be better prepared and not shocked or freaked out. But it does seem like that time has come and a lot of people will leave the church and a lot of people will join the church, with a better knowledge of these things, and even more of those who have been members all there lives (like Jay and Cherryn) will have there world turned upside down and have to find truth for themselves. (which I feel will be a good thing!)

    A lot of the problem, (and I wonder how both Jay and Cherryn feel about his), is that there is a lot of really false info out there about the church. There is more ngative then positive, and for someone seeking truth it is hard to discern truth from opinion.

  14. Let’s say, for example, that the Church did talk about polygamy. Let’s say they included Brigham Young’s wives and Joseph Smith’s wives in the Church manuals. The Church might then be accused of promoting polygamy. It is a very fine line they walk and either way they go critics will not be happy.

    If you’re going to ask Joseph Smith to make your bed, you’re still going to have to sleep in it.

  15. Tim,
    I’m not saying in anyway that the LDS leaders shouldn’t be open about the polygamous past. I just understand that they may have reasons for not doing it other than trying to hide it.

  16. Jay
    I’ve been investigating the church for two years .I’m not afraid to delve into things , but its only dawned on me this last two weeks that Polygamy really is the order of this church …a frank admission from my Bishop !

    When I enquired prior I was told
    1 thats in the past and only 2-3% practiced it for social reasons …looking after widows .
    2 We don’t practice it now .
    3 Joseph never had sex with his multiple wives .
    4 So what abraham did it !
    5 Pray about it
    6 Not all will be asked to do it but only a few who are comfortable with it …

    Well no woman is comfortable with it …

    Neither of these is an honest answer and I doubt that these members knew themselves anyway exactly whats going on …. but maybe some chose to hide it from me …

    The only reason the church holds to its Polygamy is that to deny it would discredit Its foundational prophets . I believe its something the church members would rather have thrown out once and for all …. except for a few freak mormon men who look forward to it …..

    The message of Families are Forever is FALSE .The real truth is Families will be Polygamous …

    Put this on your publications and stop pretending to be a mainstream monogomous church ….

    Misleading people into a church is despicable . when someone first finds out , it gets excused away as’ oh it was just looking after widows ‘, then it keeps them in for a few more years until they find out it was more than that and now they can find out the full extent of it ..Joseph Smith Marrying married women , coersed young Teens with the threat of CK …. If they disobeyed they wouldn’t get into a high CK place without him …

    This is the church and its history ..

    Steffielynn

    Read The Journal Of Discourses and you will very quickly see the arrogance and self righteousness bigotry of Brigham Young and the other Leaders …

    If your husband spoke like that you wouldn’t say its my opinion only .

    You have a cushy number living with a choice husband .. I’d like to see your reaction if you were called secretly by a 60 year old Apostle to marry him :(

    And in the future we all blotted your name out of history and showed him with only his first wife in the church books … as a monogomist .

    I will bring this up when the opportunity arises in Elders Quorom ..

    Read Apostle Mark Petersons talk of how he deserves to be born into a white prosperous mormon family for his valiancy in the pre existence , while the less valiants end up in black bodies or poor families or in idolatrous hindoo families .. .. then tell me the arrogance and bigotry its only my opinion again ?

    Do you believe this yourself or is Mark Peterson wrong .. Brigham Young taught similar things also ..

    I’m sorry if its driving the spirit away but they taught it not me … and I’ve gone off the original subject again ! :)

  17. EJ,
    It has already been established on this blog (see Should we apologize to blacks? post) that Brigham Young and others that held his views about blacks and the priesthood were wrong.

    I’m surprised that you didn’t know that the Mormon Church still believes in practicing polygamy. I thought we had covered that before too. The LDS Church has never said that polygamy was a bad thing or a mistake. It has always maintained that polygamy is a higher law that God asks us to obey during certain times. Now is not one of those times. So the Church forbids polygamy unless it is sanctioned by God. It is possible that the LDS members will practice polygamy again in this mortality and not just after this life.

    Much like with blacks and the priesthood ban, members, and even leaders, have tried to come up with logical excuses for polygamy (some of them are ones you list), but they are only trying to rationalize something in their mind that they don’t understand. The excuses really don’t hold water as you have already discovered.

    I would challenge you on stating that no woman is comfortable with it. I have seen interviews done with professional women (i.e. doctors) that are in a polygamous marriage and are very content. They like the fact that they can have children, but then can go out and have a career while knowing that their children are taken care of by another wife. The other aspects of the marriage don’t seem to bother them either. So there are at least a few women that don’t see polygamy as a big issue.

    How is the message of families forever a false one? I don’t see how polygamy contradicts that doctrine. I sometimes have a hard time with the things you say because you state some things as fact that are in reality only opinion. I understand why you think that way, but when you say it like you do it doesn’t let anyone form their own opinion of the events (e.g. saying Joseph Smith forced young girls into marriage). It would be better to state the facts and let someone decide if that is what in fact Joseph did.

  18. Steff…

    There is alot of false information out there… unfortunately there is also so much info that is correct! And there is not just two sides to the story, there seems to be 3 or 4… depending on the topic at hand.

    I guess the biggest problem.concern that I have presently is that there is just so much pointing to J.S. being a con man/plagerist… for me to think of him any other way than honerable has been very difficult. ALL my life he was one thing, and now he is just not that anymore… His actions are extremely questionable… so while I want to focus in on all the good things about J.S. specifically, it is overwhelmingly challenging to just overlook all the other information.

    I mean does anyone else here have a problem with the book “the View of the Hebrews”? and the fact that it is basically the same story as the BoM.. only the BoM is embelished????(sp)

  19. Cherryn,
    I am aware of “View of the Hebrews” and Spaulding’s “manuscript found” both of which have parallels to the Book of Mormon and both of which were around at the time of Joseph Smith. It is a very interesting topic. Though I have read some of the critics accusations about them being used a source material, I have chosen to reserve judgment until I have time to read both myself. I know that there are members that have read the two stories and reject the idea that Joseph used them to write the Book of Mormon. In case you didn’t know, the idea that native Americans were descendants of the lost ten tribes was a common belief around the time of Joseph Smith.

  20. Yes I knew that it was very common conception that the natives came from Israel… dont you think it is a little fishy? Book of the Hebrews has an aweful lot of similarities…

  21. Have you read it?

  22. honestly… NO… I have read all(most the parallels though, from LDS authors… I need to read it for myself though…

  23. EJ,

    How many years have you been investigating the church? I can never remember. ;)

  24. Tim

    Two Years and I’ve had probably had enough now ….. I’ve been misled from the beginning ..I’ve been set up many times also …

    I suspect People befriended me as an assignment . But I have lots of real friends so I’m not vulnerable this way.

    I was insulted once by The Ward missionary. He said the reason I never got my Moroni promise was because I was insincere … ( I attend church and participate more than faithfull members)I felt like punching him … YET Brigham Young took two years and My new ward missionary took 3 years of investigating ! What hippocracy !

    Lo and behold when I came back after a month away from church in the wilderness the elders quorom talk happened to be about ‘being offended’ lol

    Jay ,

    My mention on blacks again was for Steffylynn’s benefit as she said that my view on LDS leaders arrogance and bigotry was my opinion , when its absolutely clear that its fact ….they were very unstable religious fanatics and bigots not only with blacks but with women/wives ……

    Cherryn

    I’ve read BH Roberts writings ‘Studies Into The Book Of Mormon ‘ and the parallels are there … I recommend this book .You can see the real intent of BH Roberts trying to get to the bottom of it and suggets Joseph Smith was the ‘Author’ afterv all of his own book of mormon….

    I intend to read View of The Hebrews at some point . At the moment I’m reading The Way To Perfection -Joseh Fielding Smith and Two James Talmage books ‘Jesus The Christ’ and ‘Articles Of Faith ‘…. borrowed from the church library ..

    Last night my Ward missionaries came .I mentioned Joseph Smith married other mens wives and they just continued as normal ! lol hahaha

    Any normal sane person would have said ” whaaaat ” !

    I felt sorry for them both as they looked at my DVD collection amongst all the church approved ones and I explained each one ..

    Book Of Abraham – About the Egytptian Papyrus with no writings of Abraham ..
    Bible versus Book Of Mormon – Archeology
    DNA and The Book Of Mormon – American Indians not being Israelites

    I think they learned more in 1 hour than they have the last 40 years !

    They could only say ‘where did you hear all this from’?

    My answer INTERNET !!!!!

    I’ve always learned in church that mankinds advancement was all linked for the mormon gospel .. Printing Press so protestantism could prepare the world for Joseph Smith .. Air Travel so missionaries could reach around the world etc .. so how do they explain the Internet which reveals the real truth and history about them !!

    What goes around comes around ..

  25. The Internet also has good things about the church as well…

    E.J. I am so confused by you, If I was as adament as you are that the church is a lie I would never go back. Why is it that you keep attending???? You sound angry and frustrated and I would think the last place you would want to be is a LDS church.

    I’ve been thinking about all these things a lot, I can understand why we are counseled to stay away from opposition, as it is tiring. Strangly though this sort of thing strenghtens me, but it just seems to go in circles, and that to me is the tiring part. But it doesn’t make me question anything because I know I had a inspired experience. Without that I would definetly falter. Nothing and nobaody will ever be able to take that from me, I just hope in 30 years it will be as clear to me as it is right now.

    EJ, I understand how you feel, I really do. But you have to let those who believe, believe. I hope you will be able to accept that experiences such as mine DO happen. If you choose to leave that will be your choice, but try to leave with a better understanding, a more positive attitude.

    Also, I read through the Preach My Gospel manual and I did not find the statement that you made in the other comment, I was curious to find out if it reallly said that, but your comment was incorrect and misleading! Unless you know word for word what is said then I don’t think you should make such bold statements!

    So it seems like there are about 6 of us regulars on here, were like a little group of friends who discuss intense and serious things yet we have never met, weird huh?????

    By the way where are you at Rick?

    also Jay I have to commend you on having such an open mind and a positive attitude, You are a good mediator and I think that is what keeps us all here!

  26. steffie

    If you get chance read this article .Its church friendly

    http://cumorah.com/lawoftheharvest.html#_Toc162146579

    It will confirm the purpose of missionaries is to BAPTISE and nothing less than that .

    I will check Preach My Gospel Book this Saturday all being well for that statement .. I remember reacting negatively to it in Elders Quorom ..

    Yes Jay is cool , he helped me realise that my feelings are understandable . I was going nuts on You Tube until he came along … lol

    If you email me .I’ll send you some pics and things ………………

    I’m in England trying to start a mass mormon Exodus out of the church ! lol hahahah

    I am trying to finish with the church .Its difficult because I’m a friendly person ( lol its true ) who doesn’t want to let anyone down and also members come round often and this is why I have to vemnt out on here ..:)

  27. steffie
    If you can show me where the battles took place on hill cumorah with evidence of 2.23 million people killed with swords , armour , breastplates , chariots etc , the I will get baptised at once !

    I can have Faith in God and the Ressurection and a life after death with Jesus Christ central to the plan but please don’t ask me to have faith in something which looks likely didn’t happen …

    or have faith that Joseph Smiths interfering with mutiple women ( housemaids),young teens and also married women , asking for his followers wives , marrying his followers wives and even when the husbands were out on a mission was all commanded of God through Jesus Christ .

    This is too much a burden to carry …….

  28. “If you can show me where the battles took place on hill cumorah with evidence of 2.23 million people killed with swords , armour , breastplates , chariots etc , the I will get baptised at once !”

    If I could I would start digging ASAP! But how do you know that it’s not there? We are comming back around to faith!!!!!!

  29. EJ

    I was talking to our missionaries and asked them what they thought about that statement (that they are only out to baptize) And they said they somewhat agree, They said that Baptism is an essential step and is one of the first (and one of the most important) principles of the gospel.

    So you can look at that two ways, You think they are out to baptize for numbers. They say, and I believe, they baptize because they love and care for God’s children, and want them to have eternal happiness.

  30. Hey you mentioned U tube

    Jay, do you have one or were you guys just commenting on them???

  31. steffielynn

    1 Most of my missionaries don’t care about the investigators . I know from experience .Nearly all my former missionaries ignore me now .They don’t respond to my emails ….. All the hype and mission cra* has faded , they call it the spirit !

    They think they cared while they were here because they were ‘programmed’ to say and think it ….. two years away from home makes them vulnerable to ‘conditioning ‘ …

    2 Where is Hill Cumorah then ? The one where the battles were supposedly fought :) Does it exist ?

    You are mixing up faith with fiction .You can say you have faith the sky is green but the facts show that its blue ….

    3 Have you seen this video

    http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=2123385090702569026&q=book+of+mormon&total=593&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

    I recommend it and please tell me what you think ..

    I’ve got all the church DVD’s and watched them also ….

    4 You are not ready for my you tube videos ..Milk before Meat ! lol

  32. Steffie,

    I travel alot and when I am on the road, I am often too busy/tired to blog. Just got back from a trip back east. Too wired to go to bed, so here I am in the wee hours of the morning.

  33. “Most of my missionaries don’t care about the investigators”

    EJ I’m so sorry that you feel this way! I AGAIN have a totally different experience with missionaries! I am very involved with them, we have 150 in our mission and I know most of them! I will say there are some that are here for the wrong reasons, but the majority are here for the right ones, we’ve already went over this but I just can’t even fathom how you can say these things, you say it as if all missionaries don’t care and that is sooooooooo not true! When they go home they are no longer ingrossed in the gospel and they have a life again. They have 2 years of catching up to do!! I still keep in touch with most missionaries that I have met! Infact I just talked to one yesturday. So basically to say this about them is just WRONG!

    I’m all for people having there own opinions and not forcing mine upon them, BUT in this case I strongly disagree with you!

    Also I did watch the video, This is the stuff I researched before I joined.

  34. steffie

    Hoe did you resaerch then with your eyes, ears and brain closed ?

    There were no Lamanite or Nephite civilisations . You might as well be a Hare Krishna who believe in a previous more advanced civilisation on the earth .. The one I met was just like you , he did his research as well !

    Now he wears a red temple garment and sandals and sells Krishna books in various Town centres .. and ‘wait for it ‘ has a NEW NAME !! lol

  35. steffie
    The missionaries are trained to Love and befriend thats the wholepoint , its all an act…. I can give you examples of my missionaries crticising inactives and investigators behind their backs ……and fellow missionaries too !
    I’m not Naive and gullible …Did you know the church assigns friends to you , for the express purpose of keeping you in …. and getting you to fully obey them and pay Tithe …

  36. “How did you research then with your eyes, ears and brain closed ?”

    I used my eyes, ears, brain, AND heart! All we’re OPEN! I’m not the smartest girl in the world but certainly not dumb!

    Maybe we should discuss the bat creek stone again?!?

    Missionaries are not perfect, i’m in no way saying they are, but their intentions are infact good! Also I know of what you speak of with “frienshipping” but I see it differently, :) “friendshipping” is something I enjoy doing because I truelly love these people, NOT because I was assigned to them, I want others to have the joy I have, my intentions are pure and so are the missionaries! The people who befriended myself and my family also had pure and true intentions, We adore them! I am very good at figuring people out and knowing who I can trust and who I can’t (hense my past).

    I have free will, I don’t HAVE to do anything, no one is making me “obey” them.

  37. steffielynn

    Brigham Young about obedience .Young girls being married to old men ! What makes you think you can disobey when they couldn’t without having the wrath of God on them ..

    “Here are the middle-aged and the young. I am now almost daily sealing young girls to men of age and experience” JOD vol 9 p37

    You have to obey the Priesthood otherwise you are disobeying God himself .They speak for God .

  38. Steffielynn

    you said
    “Maybe we should discuss the bat creek stone again?!?”

    Its a forgery I’ve read …… I don’t think BYU FARMSand FAIRS use it for that reason , unless you know different ?

    Same with the one about a Catholic Priest living in Switzerland called Lutis Gratine in 1739 who prophesied that the true church will be restored with the Priesthood , Apostles, Prophets etc and that he sees a little band of people led by a Prophet who would be visited by an Angel because of his distressed soul in seraching for the true church etc etc … Have you heard of this ? It sounds exactly like he was prophesising about Joseph Smith and the church !

    Unfortunately its False ! the church has lots of liars like Paul Dunn because there is nothing else to support it………

    It was started by a returned missionary called Jacob Spori in LDS publications in 1893 .It seems he was doing a ‘Paul Dunn’ special ! In 1908 the church warned against this false prophecy in the Improvement Era magazine , but unfortunately it’s still going round .

  39. I see your point, but what I am saying is that If these things were to happen now, Let’s say with my daughter, I would choose to not follow! The thing is I was not back in the 1800′s I don’t know how, and if, these things occured. But I am here now, and if these things were happening as you say then I would have no part in it.

    I’m really not one sided, I actually have a more open mind now that I am a member of this church. I am open to the other side of a story, but I can also reject the things that I do not feel are true.

  40. steffielynn

    I understand what you are saying , but these things did occur .They are in the Journal Of Discourses .iIve only quoted a snippet .There are lots of them . I sent a word doc full of them to Cherryn ..

    I understand your predicament and I couldn’t defend or support what these Church Leaders did , this is why I can’t baptise … I simply cannot accept that the Jesus Christ I love from the New Testament ordered any of this …. he didn’t !

    If I took the church on its values now it would be easier , BUT its still a polygamist church .The Law forced them to ‘temporary suspend ‘ only …. Its the order of Heaven according to the High Priests I know in my ward and they make no apologies for it …. Its taken me two years to get this out of them and I’m shocked …. I actually thought monogomy was preferred but it isn’t …

    I admit not all in church like the idea . No women whatsover like the idea and the concern and stress it causes them is ridiculous .. There are a few men who find it unpallitable too ..

    But this is the foundation of new revelation and restoration POLYGAMY ! :(

    If you lived in Joseph Smiths time .. You would be a target for him to marry ( irrespective of your marriage to hubby ) and your daughter also ( 14 years old was ok for Joseph Smith ).

    I dare say he didn’t even have an age minimum …

    How can he be marrying his house maids ? sister combinations , teens etc …and married women ..

    All these things are to much for me to stomach..

    I can give my time my money my service very wilfully .. but not my Integrity and conscience because I believe in God and this history scares me ….. and especially because the church believes it was all with the approval and full sacred sanction and orders of Jesus Christ :(

    Yet they choose to avoid( and even deny the way it was really practiced ) with new members and investigators …

    Some church members reconcile and say ” well at least we didn’t kill like the Inquisitions ” But thats a bad comparison because anyone can justify any sinister behaviour this way ….

    You do well to stay knowing the real history , but your testimony should be strong enough to give your daughter to an old apostle or whoever so desire to call her to marry. It happened to 14 year old Helen Marr Kimball .

    PS I’m so glad you said “If these things were to happen now, Let’s say with my daughter, I would choose to not follow! ” and “But I am here now, and if these things were happening as you say then I would have no part in it. ”

    I am secure knowing you are NOT Brainwashed :)

    Would you be willing to chat over skype or msn sometime audiowise …. I have a webam too and you’ll get to see who I am .. I’m sure if you put a face to my words then they won’t be as harsh as they appear ….

  41. EJ,
    I don’t think polygamy is causing women of the Church stress. Growing up in the Church I never heard any women express that they were “stress out” about polygamy. If it came back then I might agree with you. (I grant that that could happen).

    “I dare say he didn’t have a minimum age…”

    A little overboard here EJ. Do you really think anyone takes you seriously when you make such outlandish statements.

    “You do well to stay… but your testimony should be strong enough to give our daughter to an old apostle…”

    What a rare thing this would be. It is much more likely that we will be asked to give all our posessions to the Church.

  42. Jay

    You say

    “A little overboard here EJ. Do you really think anyone takes you seriously when you make such outlandish statements.”

    Who is overboard because it was Joseph Smith who took a 14 year old to marry at age 37 ….. and not me ..

    I know who I would trust between me and him …

    I ask woman about polygamy in church and I know what the women really feel .The reason you don’t see it is because no woman can express herself because she is under the Priesthood Authority…. they can’t express concern lest it be seen as a criticism … There mouths are effectively zipped …..

    I’m a visitor/investigator and under no ones ‘supposed’ authority hence I have freedom to ask …

    You’d like our Elders Qurom meetings ! lol

  43. “But this is the foundation of new revelation and restoration POLYGAMY”

    No the foundation of new revelation is new revelation.

    I’m a women in the church and I don’t even think about it (polygamy) let alone stress on it.

    My testimony of the church is strong, and the thing is, I don’t believe that will happen. I trust the Lord and His church!

  44. I think I’m as aware as you are about what women in the Church feel and there is no anxiety about polygamy, probably because LDS members are not ask to live it right now. You are giving LDS women far too little credit. They are much stronger than you suggest.

    Joseph Smith did marry a 14 year old. However, to infer that he would marry an 8 or 6 year old by saying he had no minimum age is really going too far.

  45. Jay,

    I will have to Disagree with you , Every woman I’ve spoken to about polygamy can’t stand it .They try to rationalise but for some even after 30 years of trying still can’t accept it .They say oh well if its of God it must be OK , we know so little of the aferlife .I’d say LDSaints know absolutely nothing more or less of the afterlife than anyone else because they are not guided by any real prophets ……

    You didn’t get back to me on Gordon Hinckley saying ” I don’t know” when asked if God was once a man ? Did he lie or not ?

    How come he doesn’t know if he’s the Prophet , Seer and Revelator ?

    Steffielynn

    So what about the bat creek stone then …

    You say you are quite smart and I’ve no reason to doubt you , but did you really think this was credible ?

    ElderJoseph@hotmail.co.uk

    I invite either of you to make contact , I’d like to speak via audio some time either on msn or skype as time and circumstance permits …

  46. EJ

    I have been researching the bat creek stone. There are those who believe it is a fake and there are those who don’t. from what I have read, the inscription on the stone has been radio-carbon dated to 32-769 A.D. It is not the stone that is in doubt but the interpretation of the symbols. From what I understand, no one can translate it.

    I find that it is inconclusive, NOT a fraud!

    I would love to contact you but I do not have the things you listed, all I have is a myspace :)

  47. steffie
    I’m not sure what ‘myspace’ does ? Is it a website of sorts and how can I contact you there …. I’ll send you some pics and things … I’m a bit older than you from your pic on here … today i skipped sacament and only attended the first two lessons .this is significant as I never missed it before in my two year attendance ..

    Its getting awfully difficlut to continue and I showed my missionaries why yesterday .Unfortunately they were devasted by what we read from the prophet Joseph Smith in his ‘ Address of The Prophet-His Testimony against the Dissenters in Nauvoo ‘

    Have you read it before ? its an easy search on google

    You say you’ve had read anti ? but what is anti ? I find just reading the early Prophets in Church History and JOD’s is enough to put me off …

  48. I have read that before, it is pretty damning to J.S. ‘s charater when it can be prooven that he was married to about 30 women at this point… although, he would hardly of considered himself to be commiting adultery becasue he was married to these women, so in his eyes it was legal.

    Also, to polygamy… Just for the record, I actually am not against polygamy and I do not stress out about it, I have never been asked to practice it nor do I think I will be… now the living it part, not sure if I would be skipping around saying YIPPEE, but it sure would be nice to have another woman around to help with all the junk in the house…What I am against is the blatant lying involved with the practice and the cover up “FOR THE GREATER GOOD”… nothing in the world has ever had a positive outcome when done for the greater good.

    SO…the JOD not so great, some of the actions of J.S. not so great… the history in general, not so great… some of the stuff Pres Hinkley has said, not so great… however there are so many things that have been accomplished that are great.

    Last point… After I am dead, I would hope that people look at the good things I have done in my life, see if I was judged on my mistakes, not sure that I would come out looking so well. Now I am not the prophet of a church, but I am human, and so were they. I am also not saying that we should overlook these huge mishaps, but maybe on SOME of these topics, we should give the benefit of the doubt…

  49. cherryn,

    You make an excellent point about being judged for the good things you have done vs. the mistakes you have made.

    I think the difference here is that the mistakes made by LDS prophets have never been owned up to. In other words, they never acknowledged that these things were mistakes or ethically wrong.

    It is one thing to judge someone for a mistake that has been acknowledged and corrected, and an entirely different thing to judge someone for a wrong that has never been righted.

  50. cherryn
    When your dead , we’ll be debating the Jods’s and stuff as we take our personalities with us according to LDS inc .. and if your a dead polygamous wife of the prophet Joseph Smith then the church will stamp your name out of all existence …..

    I’d say the actions of Joseph Smith were despicable and criminal and against God , the same with Brigham Young .How many women would have lowered themselves to these polygamous marriages if they weren’t under the impression that they had to do it for God .Where was their free agency ?It was taken away from them with threats of Damnation if they didn’t obey the Prophet …

    Its clear what the role of women was as defined by the prophet Brigham Young ,there only purpose was to produce his future posterity , whether they liked it or not , they were ‘called’ … and to disobey would bring frowning and Spiritual threats from the Leadership . Its in the JOD’s…. these men were simply arrogant self righteous bullies… read for yourself
    If anyone wants references I’ll send them ..

    and if you want to an extra pair of hands around the house hire a house maid …..and there’s no need for her to be a wife unless she’s very young and Joseph Smith is the householder ….

    Jesus Christ will judge … so you’ll be fine ….. there will be no Mormon prophets or apostles doing any kind of judging work , they will be having to explain themselves for their actions … and I’m glad I’m not in their shoes …

  51. “and if your a dead polygamous wife of the prophet Joseph Smith then the church will stamp your name out of all existence …”

    Is that why you can find their names on familysearch.org, a website owned by the Church?

  52. Jay
    You know yourself how that the polygamous wives of the early Leaders are all excluded from any church manual , DVD’s , Ensign , New era’s etc etc .They are never spoken about and never honoured for their sacrifice ……

    The whole subjetct is never spoken about except when someone is troubled by it and then the response is always to give the simplest less offensive answer you can get away with !

    But when I’ve pressed hard on the subjest all the Polygamy Male Fans come out in Praise of the whole thing !

    Even Hitler and Stalin will be on the familysearch.org website if they have had there work done for them .

    Have you seen the JosephSmith website .He’s a monogomist on there .Its deception . If people knew this many of them wouldn’t join the church in the first place and many leave after they found out about polygamy …. and worst still how it was effectively enforced , Young Girls marying OLD men because they were commanded to or suffer the wrath of God!
    Obedience is the key word …….

  53. EJ,

    I agree the Church should be more forth coming with its polygamous past. I feel the same way you do on that point. The experience you had, asking people about polygamy is accurate and one that I personally have experienced. However, I view it as a deemphasis on polygamy, not an institutional deception.

    In the past I’ve thought of it as deception myself, but I now know that it is much more complicated than that. It is a very sensitive issue for many reasons. I would like to see it be taught openly especially in Church history classes and when the D&C is taught every 4th year, but I understand the thin line they are trying hard to balance themselves on.

    Hopefully, we will be more open with our whole history as time goes on (I don’t see how we can avoid it). I’m excited to see this change as it will allow many of us that struggle with complex issues an opportunity to talk about them in a church setting without being labeled apostates or being thought of as ignorantly believing anti-Mormon teachings (I have been accused of this:).

  54. my conversion was different. i was raised in a catholic family and was very active in the church, i had believed in the teachings with all my heart.
    one day, i had started to talk to a man who i soon became very close friends with.

    he was a mormon and offered me a book of mormon, to be kind i had accepted the gift. i had started to read it to pass the time. for some reason i had began to feel myself believe the teachings of the prophets mentioned in the book.

    so i prayed, long and hard to our heavenly father to see if this book is true. soon after i had done this, one night i had a vision, where a pillar of light had came from the book of mormon on my desk, when i had opened up this book, there where no pages, but plates of gold!! I was allowed to observe the untranslated plates that held the records of the nephites and the lamanites before they where returned to heaven.

    the next night i had another vision where a book was sent to me, containing every holy book that held the true word of god, this included the bible, the book of mormon, D&C , pearl of great price and all the holy books that have not been written yet. then this book was returned to heaven.

    this was why i ultimately decided to convert to the church of jesus christ of latter day saints. all of the words i say are true and nothing but the truth.

  55. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I truly appreciate your efforts and I will be waiting for your further post thanks once again.


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