Posted by: Jay | January 10, 2008

Mormon Temple ceremony

350px-slc_temple_east_side_night.jpg

There’s always been a hesitancy among LDS temple attendees to talk about the inside of the temple and what goes on there. While I agree that there are a few things we make promises to God not to discuss (i.e. specific signs and tokens) 99% of what goes on in the temple we make no promise to remain quite about.

I’ve heard many people say that they were very nervous about going into the temple the first time because of all the secrecy. I wonder why LDS members are so scared to share what goes on in the temple. I can certainly understand not sharing it with people that mock and ridicule simply because we hold it sacred, but what about Temple Preparation class? What about when someone even a non-member asks us a sincere question?

Before I got married my fiancee (now my wife) asked what went on in the temple. I told her everything (except the signs and tokens) that happened from the moment you enter till you leave. I told her that we watch a video about the creation of the world. That we make promises to God to keep His commandments. Really 99% of it is nothing that anyone wouldn’t learn just by going to regular church services. In fact a lot of what is taught is just repeated directly from the Bible and LDS Scripture. The only real difference is that you formally promise God that you will obey His commandments (the ones found in the Bible).

I know that some people would disagree with the theology that is taught, but its no different that the theology taught outside the temple. So why do you think we are so reluctant to share what goes on in the temple? Why are we afraid that we will say something we are not supposed to? All we have coveted not to share are the signs and tokens or am I missing something?

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Responses

  1. There is a lot that we can share with others about the temple. The main doctrines that are taught in the temple are the same doctrines that are taught in the scriptures and in our meetings on Sunday. The Pearl of Great Price is a great temple study tool. The doctrines of the creation, the fall, the atonement, and our return to our Heavenly Father are all openly taught. We are also openly taught about chastity, obedience, sacrifice, and consecration. These are doctrines that every member, endowed or not, should understand. The names of the ordinances have also been made publicly known – washings and anointings, baptism for the dead, ordination, endowment, sealing.

    But we should not discuss the “details” of the temple directly outside of the temple. Elder Packer has said, “Our reluctance to speak of the sacred temple ordinances is not in any way an attempt to make them seem more mysterious or to encourage an improper curiosity about them… They are kept confidential lest they be given to those who are unprepared… There are some blessings which can be bestowed only in the Lord’s temple, and we do not talk of them outside the temple… We are not free to discuss the temple ordinances and ceremonies… Without the spiritual atmosphere of the temple itself, and without the worthiness and preparation required of those who go there, the temple ceremonies would not be quickly understood and might be quite understood… While we cannot discuss in detail the temple ordinances and ceremonies, there is much we can discuss in this book – and we will” (The Holy Temple, 27-39).

    As Elder Packer says, it is mostly a matter of preparation. We don’t cast our pearls before swine, and neither did the Lord and His apostles when they discussed the “higher knowledge.” It is a sacred knowledge that is not to be given to all people, only to those who are prepared to receive it, which is determined by a temple recommend. But even among endowed temple recommend holders we don’t discuss outside the temple the details of the ordinances and ceremonies. It is not the right environment. The temple has been built, prepared, and dedicated to the Lord and sanctified for the purpose of teaching the details. Following Elder Packer’s admonition, we should “not discuss the sacred ordinances and ceremonies of the temple further than has previously been published about them by the Church” (The Holy Temple, 10).

    Hugh Nibley is an ideal example and has set a standard of how we should talk about the temple. As his biography points out, “Importantly, Hugh has maintained the confidence of General Authorities by writing about the temple in a highly respectful way that also preserves the sacred nature of the subject matter. Hugh’s writings about the temple provide not only new insights and knowledge but also deeper inspiration and motivation. Indeed, with both his words and his deeds, Hugh has inspired both templegoers and a whole generation of scholars to take the temple more seriously… In all of these studies, Hugh has been respectful of the covenants of secrecy safeguarding specific portions of the LDS endowment, usually describing parallels from other cultures without talking specifically about the Mormon ceremony. This approach earned him a great deal of trust from both General Authorities and from Church members… Stressing the value Church leaders placed on Hugh’s temple-related studies and their gratitude for his approach, Elder Dallin H. Oaks later wrote Hugh: ‘It also seems desirable for me to express, in behalf of my brethren, our admiration and appreciation for the sensitive way in which you have done your scholarly work and expressed your views on subjects related to the temple ceremonies.’ Oaks included with that letter ‘The Temple Ceremonies,’ a talk he had recently given to ‘an audience of General Authorities’ in which he addressed the manner and extent to which temple ordinances should be discussed outside the temple. Oaks assured Hugh that ‘nothing in this talk is intended to be a criticism or a discouragement of efforts as sensitive as yours. The talk has some targets, but you aren’t one of them” (Petersen, “Hugh Nibley: A Consecrated Life”, 351-356). In a footnote, Petersen mentions that in Oaks’ “The Temple Ceremonies” talk that “Oaks cited James E. Talmage and Boyd K. Packer as models of what can and cannot be discussed; however, he specifically quotes Hugh’s writings in several places throughout the talk.” If you want to know what can be freely discussed outside the temple, study these brethren.

    I am actually very close to launching a blog on temple studies. I will discuss temple theology, ritual, and symbolism in traditional Nibley fashion. There is much that we can talk about the temple while we are on the outside, we just need to learn how to do it to respect the sacred nature of the Lord’s house.

  2. Why are we afraid that we will say something we are not supposed to? I think most Mormons just play it safe. Our entire social structure as Mormons teaches that it is best to just play it safe about so many things. You can see it in youth programs. Pre-marital sex is obviously a no-no, but watch how far some youths are told to take the matter. Some people take things to the ridiculous extreme of not kissing before marriage, and then held up as an example of great obedience! Look at home teaching. People are told, not to just do it once a month, but it get it done early in the month, just in case. These people are held up as the REALLY obedient. People are held up as virtuous for not drinking Coke, even though it has nothing to do with the Word of Wisdom.

    Well, if you live in that culture and you are dealing with what you are told are the most sacred covenants you will ever make, and are given at least implied punishments if you reveal something inappropriate, what’s your reaction when told to keep part of it secret? Play it safe! Keep it all secret, just in case.

  3. After my own experience in the temple, I feel it’s morally wrong to go through the temple not knowing beforehand the covenants you will make.

    Going through the temple was what I was taught that I wanted. I was taught that’s what one does when they marry. They go through the temple. I was (still am!) a good girl – followed the rules, did what was right, obeyed my parents and church leaders, read my scriptures, prayed daily, went to church…everything one is supposed to do. And nothing could have prepared me for that temple experience. My parents told me NOTHING about the temple. In fact, for my birthday, my mother got me the temple garb and wouldn’t let me look at them until we were putting them on – in the ceremony!

    I just feel like more disclosure would be better for such serious covenants and promises. I think you did your now-wife a huge favor.

  4. The temple is the only place where the sacred covenants should be described in detail. Outside of the temple we can discuss the covenants and nature of the temple experience generally, that we make covenants of chastity, obedience, of sacrifice and consecration, and what those subjects entail. There has been much said by the General Authorities on these subjects, and many scriptures on them too. This is exactly what is taught in the temple preparation class offered by the local ward or stake, which should be required for anyone attending the temple for the first time. We can certainly discuss generally what happens in the temple, that we watch a video concerning the plan of salvation, don sacred clothing, make covenants with God, and go through several steps before we pass through the veil and enter the celestial room. But the details of the ceremony are reserved for that sacred space.

    I admit, I too was somewhat surprised by some of the more sacred aspects of the temple on my first visit. This just re-emphasized to me what the Lord meant when He said, “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD” (Isaiah 55:8). What takes place in the temple is not “normal” to the world’s standards. It is not of the world. It is of God. He does things differently. It is a testimony to me of the truthfulness, and antiquity, of it. But we do not discuss the details outside of the temple. It is the difference between the sacred and the profane. What is sacred must be kept sacred, and is reserved for a sacred space. If not, it becomes profane.

  5. Here is some good commentary:

    http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4343

  6. The temple is just odd to me. I had a temple sealer tell me that “God and Mary conceived Jesus the same way that you and your wife conceive your children.” Granted, it wasn’t the sealer for OUR marraige, but it was a sealer that was assigned to us for our 45 minutes worth of sealing that we were supossed to do.

    The only things that are sacred according to the temple ceremony (if i recall correctly) are the signs, tokens and names. The covenants are not sacred, they hold up the scriptures at one point and say “as contained in these scriptures.”

  7. I attended a temple prep course prior to going to the temple. It was a one-time thing and lasted about 2 hours. I remember lots of questions being asked and the man conducting the class always saying, “Good question, but I can’t answer that. You’ll have to wait until you get to the temple.” I didn’t realize that there are temple prep classes that take 4-6 weeks… that would’ve been helpful.

    Yes, if we read Genesis and the Pearl of Great Price, we know 99% of what goes on in the temple. But it’s that 1% that threw me for a loop. When my mother realized that my prep classes basically did nothing to prepare me, she just about had a stroke. Of course she realized this while we were inside the temple. Afterwards she told me she was upset and blamed herself for not pulling me aside and explaining to me what would happen.

    If you are preparing to go through the temple, you should know what convenants you will be taking. You shouldn’t come out with wide eys, mouth agape and think, “Whaaaaaat?” I don’t regret going through the temple, but my preparation did nothing to make feel comfortable during sessions… even now. What you did for your wife was exactly the right thing.

  8. Thanks Pam,
    I think if someone is going through the temple they should be fully informed about what will happen. I think you can share many details without violating any covenant we’ve entered into with God.

  9. We do know what covenants we make in the temple beforehand. We make covenants of obedience, sacrifice, chastity, sobriety, and consecration. Even non-endowed members of the Church practice these principles to some extent. That is not hidden knowledge. The prophets have taught these in General Conference. However, we do not share the names, signs, tokens, and other ceremonial details with those preparing to go to the temple. To do so would make those symbolic rites profane.

    I have launched my new blog about temple studies. You can visit it at TempleStudy.com. The purpose of the blog is to learn more about the temple in a respectful way. It can be a good tool to use with those preparing to go to the temple. I’d love to have your comments there!

  10. I am wondering if there is any way to contact some of you through e-mail or phone, etc? My main question right now is what is how does the creation of the world differ from what i have been taught in the Bible to what is taught in the Temple? Also, i read sisterseers comment and i would greatly like to know what she is talking about before i make those sacred covenants. I have heard NOTHING about the Temple and never asked because i thought it was wrong to talk about. But today in church i was in primary and they were teaching about the creation of the world, and the adults were getting confused, so the teacher explained that she was just teaching the children what it says in the Bible for now, and they would learn the “real” way when they went to the Temple. What did she mean?

  11. Also, can anyone please e-mail me just to talk about anything concerning the church? I have had missionaries over so many times. In fact they still come once every week. But there is so much they are never able to answer for me.

  12. PS-The Amberyl comment was mine too. That was before i knew how to navigate around this place. Also, my e-mail is: girlfromkrynn msn com. Thanks! (I wrote it that way to avoid those pesky spammers)

  13. Perhaps you could let us know what it was that Sisterseers said that you have further questions about.

  14. Just because we have covenanted to not discuss the details of the temple ceremony outside the temple… – From Bryce’s about page.

    Bryce,
    I don’t believe we make any such covenant. The only covenant we make is to not reveal the signs and tokens. details of the ceremony are not included in that covenant. I think most people like David above said are “playing it safe”.

  15. Many of these questions have answers. For example, President Hinckley and others have named and discussed briefly the temple covenants (which largely parallel baptismal covenants.)

    See here, for references and discussion.

    Amberyl, I don’t know if you’re still checking this thread, but feel free to email me at a dot humble dot monk at gmail dot com if you’d like.

  16. Ok, I don’t think I closed that tag right… Admin?

  17. Thanks for the link Monk.

  18. It’s all available online:

    http://www.***************

  19. SunnyD,

    I sincerely regret that I had to edit your comment. The link you provided reveals parts of the LDS temple ceremony I have promised to not discuss outside of the temple. Specifically, the signs and the tokens of the LDS priesthood. For that reason I eliminated the link, even though I do not necessarily believe the sight is anti-Mormon and think it contains a lot of helpful information about the temple ceremony.

    Those that wish to find out more are free to search for themselves. I only advise any that do, that many of the websites that contain details on the LDS temple ordinances are what I would consider anti-Mormon. While they provide a different perspective on the ceremony, they are inherently biased because in many case they are set against the Church to begin with. If you do visit such websites I would invite you to balance their views with those from LDS faithful sources. You can find a few good places to start on the right hand side of this page.

  20. I understand completely and I respect your circumspection and the honoring of your vows. I didn’t make any such vows; however, this is your blog and I respect that. I didn’t really think my post would get onto this board at all, but I thought I would at least try, because the website I listed is probably the only one out there that presents the secret/sacred aspects of temple ritual in a fair and unbiased manner. The LDS forums naturally do not address the secret/sacred details, and many of the other “informational” sites use outdated or extremely biased sources. I’ve seen some pretty ridiculous and sensationalist claims on what are supposed to be informational boards. Alas, secrecy begets rumors, and the more rigid the secrecy, the more ridiculous the rumors.

    Peace.

  21. I also understand where you are coming from and do not fault you for your curiosity. As you said it is all available on the Internet for anyone to see. Although I am open to talking respectfully about the parts I did not covenant to discuss, I have to draw the line at some point. Thank you for understanding.

    You are absolutely right to say there are many biased sites out there. The one you offered was much more neutral than many others I have seen. I thank you for offering it.

  22. David said:
    “Well, if you live in that culture and you are dealing with what you are told are the most sacred covenants you will ever make, and are given at least implied punishments if you reveal something inappropriate, what’s your reaction when told to keep part of it secret? Play it safe! Keep it all secret, just in case.”

    I see it as a mentality that has been passed down from the very beginning. In the pre-1990 endowment, you were required to take certain oaths which included some rather graphic punishments if you spoke about them. The fear of these punishments would be enough to keep most people quiet and that tradition has carried over to each new generation even though the punishments have been taken out of the ceremony. Personally, had I known what was going to happen in the temple, I don’t think I would have been willing to go.

    Bryce said:
    “What takes place in the temple is not “normal” to the world’s standards. It is not of the world. It is of God. He does things differently.”

    I would agree that it is not “normal” to the world but I don’t agree that it is of God. I can’t see God in the temple. I don’t believe that God would need a special handshake or new name to know who I am and if I was worthy to get into heaven. I don’t think God would require someone to make covenants with him, without fully disclosing what would be required of us BEFORE putting us in that situation. I see the temple as a way of uniting the members of the church by putting them into a certain “club” that makes them different then everyone else. It helps create the “us against them” mentality that is often part of the Mormon culture and enables the idea that Mormons are better (or live a higher law) because they have something no one else does.

  23. Well up until recently I kept away from the Temple Endowment ceremony as a sign of respect and promise to my TBM friend .

    Since she has totally abused and made of nil effect all her promises to me and totaly deceived me to try to get me baptised, I decided to look into it by downloading the entire ceremony before it was taken off on you tube.

    The copy is so good , someone going through the endowment obviously sneaked in some good recording gear … (yet another dissafected mormon ).

    I haven’t studied it closely yet , though I have the Transcript as well which includes the changes made over the years .

    I actually find it so uninteresting and irrelevant knowing what I know about the church so I’m not that curious anyway or going to bother with it.

    I’ve seen the Masonic version that gave Joseph Smith his version and that was enough for me.

    What I find intruiging is that Mormons are classed to be ‘worthy’ ? There must be some with guilty consciousess going to the Temple and lots leading double lives.

    My TBM friend was working ‘illegally’ and still went to The Temple !?!? That opened my eyes to what Mormons consider worthy .I was shocked.

    I guess its not as bad as Paul Dunn or the recent Stake Pres and Bishop locked up in Jail for sex crimes against children .And all the time they were interviewing the average Mormon for worthiness ?!?!?

    I’ve no doubt the majority are elligable ( worthy? depends on definition !?!? ) .

  24. We have to start looking the temple from a more scholarly view of things. I think people make the temple out to be voo doo mubo jumbo when it is not. I wish there were more things that actually go on in the temple in theological text books with independent scholar analyzing the symbolism and presentation. The act of secrecy that we have with the temple has led in my opinion to the vast majority of rumors and misperceptions about the church. I mean if someone really wants to criticize the church, there are real issues that can be looked and examined by members and non members alike. The secrecy around the temple perpetuated by the members has given fuel to the anti-Mormon fire and has deflected legitimate criticism that I believe we need as a sub culture. “Peculiar people” does not mean weirdoes’! Lets be more open. Maybe some transparency with the people on this side of the veil would help bring more into the kingdom

  25. Abe

    If people knew about the Temple Ceremonies as investigators you might find that they would not bother joning the church in the first place.

    In fact if they knew what the church really believes then they would probably not get baptised.

    Instead Missionaries are baptising people under pressure and with the atitude ‘the less they know , the better’ ……

    you said
    ” Maybe some transparency with the people on this side of the veil would help bring more into the kingdom”

    If you are going to be Honest and include past death oaths as well then who will join ?

    And how can the church be Tranparent with the Temple when they aren’t even transparent with the real church history and real doctrine and in many cases outright dishonest !

    It can only function smoothly on deception….

  26. I wanted to comment on the question by Amberyl On January 28, 2008, at 7:19, regarding versions of the creation.

    First let me give you some background information that may be helpful and is, I hope, not too much information. I had not been to the temple in some years due to divorce, financial problems, and other issues. I was gradually pulling my life together until in mid-January 2008 I died of heart failure for twenty minutes, was in an induced coma for five days, suffered brain damage, etc. I was given a priesthood blessing and came out of it, gradually, although I was given a two percent chance of living.

    When I finally got out of the hospital I felt an increased desire to return to the temple. Because I was not allowed to return to work for four months I started attending the temple more and more, also engaging in the other less heralded work of family history research to find and perform the ordinances of salvation and exaltation for my family. I started reading everything I could find about the temple.

    I visited some internet sites that included the verbatim text of the endowment and other temple ceremonies. Ond was very thorough and seemed respectful of the ordinances, not revealing those specific parts of the endowment we covenant not to reveal. Another, an ant-mormon site published by an ex-member, criticized the endowment as it did not match the order of the creation given in the scriptures. I went to the temple with the question that destroyed his testimony in my mind. I re-read the creation scriptures, especially the book of Moses which describes the physical creation. Now, some may not think highly of Cleon Skousen’s First Two Thousand Years book (negative review on Amazon.com) but I re-read that as I was reacquainting myself with the creation. That book and the repeated attendace of the endowment ceremony brought the answer to the question of mismatched creation order: The scriptures describe the physical creation but mention nothing of the sprit creation. The temple endowment ceremony incorporates both the spiritual and physical creations. There is no reason the two creations need to be in the same order. Different spheres have different rules. What matters is that before things were created physically they were organized/created spiritually. To my mind the sequence of the creation in the endowment ceremony makes sense, and incorporating the physical and the spiritual, drawings/art versus ‘picures” is an ingenious way to communicate the differences. It paints a more complete picture, a picture worth a thousand words.

    (Another interesting and related talk by Cleon Skousen that opened my eyes is “A Gospel Trilogy”, available from the Skousen web site. Going through the endowment after reading that was interesting, especially the differences in the very first parts of the two endowment films. The Oakland temple has very large screens and I have thought it would be interesting to show both version of the films on the same screnn with one audio version – preferrably blonde Eve. Hope this does not offend!)

    I have decided that I need to give the Lord the benefit of the doubt. The brother who left the church because he could not reconcile the differences between the creation versions lost a lot because of pride. If there is a question between what you think/understand and what the Lord thinks, as expressed in the temple ordinances, you’d better figure you’re the one not “getting it” and wait until you see it Heavenly Father’s way. Or you could lose everything that’s important.

    I have stopped visiting sites that reveal too much of the temple. I am very comfortable, on the other hand, and am so pleased with Bryce Hammond’s TempleStudy.com. Bless you Bryce for your labors. I am continually amazed at the work (quality and quantity) you produce. I hope more keen minds contribute to the work you have started.

    I feel the Spirit when I enter the temple. I believe it is a sacred place. It is a big, beautiful, sacred nut to crack. I don’t get it all. And that’s a good thing. There is a lifetime of learning there. But what I do get is definitely good, not bad. Even if I do not understand everything that happens there I believe, I know, that it is Heavenly Father’s house. I have felt the presence of my dead ancestors there, felt the exalting power of the ordinances of the Holy prieshood. I have felt the Lord raising me and my kindred dead to prepare us for a higher existence, to be godly, holy, far better than I am or can imagine. If I don’t get it all I would be stupid to throw away the baby with the bath water. I have to give him the benefit of the doubt. My questions will eventually be answered. There is nothing I find offensive in the ordinances of the temple. Only uplifiting, loving, enlightening principles and feelings. If you don’t feel that way when you enter the temple you are not being soft and receptive enough. I hope you don’t have to die, like I did, to see this. I don’t think you do. You can let in the Spirit or you can reject it.

    • Randy, still following the faith after so many years…do you remember Southern California. A lifetime ago???
      Noel

  27. Randy,

    Why does the function of the modern LDS temple stray so radically from the original Temple?

  28. Bishop Rick, I’m not Nibley and your question seems much bigger than I could thoroughly answer. But the first thing that comes to my mind is that we are living in the dispensation of the fullness of times. Truths are being revealed in this day and age that were not and could not be revealed in previous dispensations. Continued revelation is a process that can be both enlightening and disturbing at the same time. Even an open-minded Latter-day Saint gets knocked out of his or her comfort zone by changes. I think the Lord has good reasons for testing us and offering growth opportunities in such changes. Ultimatlely we have to trust what He is doing and give him the benefit of the doubt. I think the nature of mortality is such that we all leave here with a feeling that we did not “get”, comprehend, the entire experience and many of the pieces of the experience, including the temple and the temple throughout the history of the world. But I still know the temple now is of Heavenly Father. I believe it will save and exalt me and my family, will still bring to pass my and our immortality and eternal lives.

    Nibley and others point out in more detail the similarities between the ancient and modern/current temple. I think that is how such intelligent and insightful scholars walk close to but not across the line of what should and should not be discussed about the temple. They point out similarities in a way those with eyes can see, in a similar but lesser way to that of the Savior’s use of parables. I think the temple ordinances are some what malleable, too, in that the basic principles, covenants, and truths can be communicated in a variety of ways that still accomplish the Lord’s purposes. I think He is aware of the vast differences in cultures that must be bridged by His ordinances. My culture does not think like the Jewish/Hebrew culture, and neither, I think, sees things like the anceints did. I think there is some latitude there. Some things are hard and fast. Without the Savior and His atonement, without priesthood, without sacrifice and obedience, etc., all the fundamental principles taught and commited to, there is no deal, no salvation, no exaltation.

    Clearly your question is significant, much bigger than my little knowledge can answer. I would like to hear your and others’ thoughts. I need to contemplate it further, too.

    Thank you for your question. My best!

  29. I realized last night in the temple one of the details of my comment was incorrect. The scriptures speak only of the spiritual creation (Moses 3:5). Thought I’d better correct this before I confused someone or got smacked in the head (verbally)! I am still impressed by the integration of the physical and spiritual creations. Sorry for the error! Trying to get my thoughts out.

    Do you compose your posts in Word or another program then copy them to this little box after you’ve spell checked, etc.? I’m a newbie blogger.

  30. My wife’s brother just died last night while I was in the temple. We discussed how her family was taking it, how to view life and death (they are not members of the LDS church), and how her LDS perspective on premortal, mortal, and post-mortal existence comforted them. The thought occurred to me “Where else can you find the truths we have in the church and the temple?” If you reject the temple or the other doctrines of the Church where else do you go for comfort and hope? Maybe that’s naive, maybe you can find better answers elsewhere. I do not think you can find anything else so comforting or so comprehensive. However many unanswered questions you have, there are far more answers and far more comfort in the gospel and in the temple than anywhere else I have found. “Works for me!”

  31. One more thought: If the function of the ancient temple was to save and exalt people through the principles and ordinances the gospel of Jesus Christ they cannot be radically different. If they are radically different then the function of the “original temple” model is described inaccurately. Their purpose, and I read that to mean their function, is the same: “to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man”. Both need to include the Savior, the atonement, the priesthood, etc.

    By “original temple” do you mean the Garden of Eden? Guess we need to define the question better.

  32. Bishop Rick, if you haven’t already done so you may want to read John M. Lundquist’s “What is a Temple? A Preliminary Typology” in “Temples of the Ancient World” edited by Donald W. Parry. There are other related articels in that book that might be of interest and are related to your question.

  33. Randy

    You said ” My wife’s brother just died last night while I was in the temple. ”

    First I would like to offer my condolences. Its always a dark time in someones life to experience a family bereavement.

    I was reading in my Gospel Principles book the other day and on page 297 it says that those who reject the gospel on earth can accept it in the spirit world but will end up only in Terrestrial Kingdom.

    Did your wifes brother reject the LDS Gospel like I have ?

    If so then how can this make your wife happy knowing he will be a Eunuch in Terrestrial Kingdom? And if his family converts to LDS his fate is already assured according to the LDS Gospel Principles book, so they have no hope of him in CK either.

    I personally think this is just a scare tactic devised originally possibly by Joseph Smith to entrap vulnerable/gullible people into joining and not giving tham an option later when they have a better assurity of it being true. He wanted followers there and now. It reminds me of sales people who say the offer is only available now and that later on it will be too late ( though we know thats never the case). Brigham Young also threatened women in the same way, He said ( JOD) that they would end up single forever in Terrestrial Kingdom if they didn’t accept polygamy :(

  34. Randy,

    I was referring to the temple prior to and at the time of Jesus. Jesus never commanded anyone to build a new Temple with new ordinances. I have to assume that any new temples were constructed outside the line of authority, thus any similarities in them and today’s temples would be mute.

  35. Oh, and yes, condolences on your loss.

  36. Having a husband pass away who I had bot loved and fought well with for 40 years I wanted to say something to the effect of death and the hope of Christ in an eternal relationship.
    I know that my love for my husband and his for me will last for time and for eternity. We could only find the heavens a hell without one another. We have 5 children – 4 by birth and 1 a foster child we raised and never left us. We may not all follow the same beliefs and faiths but we all agree that with the hope of love eternal we all agree that the God of Heaven and the man with the master plan ofr our happiness will be able to over ride all our small and petty differances. Life is to short and precious to allow ourselves to be led to anthing of the earth that is not up lifting, spiritually good and builds a foundation of peace.
    I actually was researching if there was anything in the Old Testament that 4 told of the September attacks. So I will keep on with my research and hope that the loss of your family member and the pain of the loss and grief will be eased by the thought of this: There are no need for tears in Heaven. Some one new has been welcomed home to the family of God, member or not. There is a reunion of joy and happiness, tears are for this side of the veil of life. The pain and saddness is over whelming but at some point there willl be peace and joy once again — it just takes time and love. God Bless, Nana G

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