Posted by: Jay | May 30, 2007

A new kind of Sunday school?

What if we had a new Sunday school class? In it LDS members could openly discuss controversial topics in Mormonism. They would be free to share the difficulty they have with accepting certain parts of Mormonism.  I see a great need for a class like this.  It would help those that are struggling to understand a variety of difficult topics right in their own ward. Currently the only outlets are a few organizations (F.A.R.M.S., F.A.I.R., Sunstone, Dialog, etc.) which have little or no stamp of approval from the LDS Church (F.A.R.M.S. is probably the closest to the LDS Church).  A manual for this class would be a valued treasure for every Mormon household.  Do you think the Church can do it? 



  1. problems should be tackled by those who see the need.

    start the class

  2. ps – the church can do nothing.

    it is people, not institutions, that bring about change

  3. Your site looks great, I will add a link to it from my site. brahnamin makes a good point that it is people within the institutions that bring about the change. Perhaps the internet is a way to go about it.

  4. I think it already exist. It’s called the Internet, where church leaders can do little to define “what is a valid question”.

  5. ah, gotta love those *invalid* questions . . . the joy of my teenage sunday school years

  6. Yes, the Internet is the only place I have found to express myself. However, I hope for an authoritative source to bring resolution the troublesome questions raised by loyal members. I think some sort of class might do the trick. I just don’t know how it could be accomplished (which is probably why it hasn’t been done yet). Perhaps change will come from the LDS people themselves.

    Zelph, Thank you for the complement. A friend let me know about your site, it looks good too. I haven’t read a whole lot on your site, but it seems we have had similar experiences. Stay in touch!

  7. ah, the trouble with getting definitive answers down in writing is that it discourages questions from future generations.

    i hold up the various catechisms of catholic and reformed faith fame as evidence.

  8. I would love such a class. However I fear the Church is a little afraid of such open forums, there is a real risk involved in free discussion, and the organization strains to avoid sanctioning anything that might be ‘testimony damaging’.

  9. I agree, I just wish it wasn’t so. I would really like to see what other thinking LDS members thought about Mormon history taken as a whole.

  10. There’s no way the Church is going to have something like that that it can’t control.

    Furthermore, it would be so off-message right now that it would signal a seismic-level change in the Church’s stance and policy.

  11. the church a control freak? say it isn’t so

    *wipes up dripping sarcasm*

  12. The Church is not ‘afraid’ of open forums… all a class like that would accomplish is a whole lot of contention and it would then end up splitting into a thousand fragments just like other religions.

    I doubt very seriously Moses had a class to address ‘doubts’ about him as a Prophet or the Church in general. I seem to remember those who dissented ended up headless… I think it would be wise to ask yourself WHY that would have been so. (And no, I’m not saying modern day dissenters should end up headless… lol)

    Kullervo – The Church maintains ‘control’ so to speak to keep people from teaching the philosphies of men as doctrine. It also focuses way too much on the frailties of humans which exist EVERYWHERE. You can see it negatively if you desire to. Or you can see it through the Lord’s eyes and realize that His doctrines need to be protected to keep us from disolving into chaos like every other religion has. Try for once looking for a ‘good’ reason for things instead of always looking for the negative.

    People who seek the worst will find it.

    Jay – There is an excellent article in the June Ensign titled “An Unending Conflict, a Victory Assured” by President Hinckley… it is excellent and speaks to what you are talking about. I highly recommend it. As Paul said, we are to be united, not divided. A house divided against itself cannot stand.

  13. I meant the idea of a class for finding faults with the Church would focus way too much of the frailties of humans.

  14. I also think now might be a good time to re-read the parable of the sower and the seeds. And recognize that WE determine whether or not we are good soil or not. That is where our choice and agency comes in.

    I have a question for you Jay (I’m just curious)… do you believe President Gordon B. Hinckley is a Prophet of God?

  15. Also, when you focus on the teachings of the Church and apply those teachings to your life and live them… where does it take you?

  16. Jayleen, I’ll definitely check that Ensign article out. Thanks.

    Way to ask a direct question about my testimony:) I have had several serious challenges to my testimony of the Church. I suppose I would characterize it in this way. I used to know the LDS Church was true. Now I just believe it is true and hope that answers to my questions will come with time. That is the best I can do currently. I am doing what Alma instructed, planting the seed of faith, testing the word. So many things about the Church actually make a lot of sense, other things do not. I have found a lot of answers, but there are still major concerns that I am trying to overcome.

  17. 😉

    When you ‘knew’ what was different?

    I’m told I can be rather *direct* at times… 😉

  18. Lets not use the term ‘contend’ as a silencer. It is often used by those in a dominate position in the Church to silence minority views, even when those views are deeply held and gospel compatible. If the term ’afraid’ for open forums is not to your taste, how about ’does not like’, a stance the Church has made clear on occasions past (witness the early 1990’s anti-symposia letter from, I believe, the First Presidency). The theoretical class advocated would be a forum for those who have problems with a party-line reading of church doctrine and history, to have a regular opportunity to work through those issues with others in the same existential boat. Members would not be required to go to the class, it would simply be an option open to them, like selecting between gospel doctrine and gospel principals classes now. It would be each individuals decision to attend or not attend this ’gospel journeys’ class, if they think their not up for it then they shouldn’t go, if they do anyway, and their testimony suffers, then its their own free agency that puts them in that situation. I think the Church does a good job of caring for the spiritual needs of most of its active membership, but it could do better for those of a more questioning nature, providing for them should not be considered a ’slap’ to others.

  19. @jayleen
    the class referred to in the original post wasn’t to be a class to *find fault* with the church but to discuss the harder issues that people already had.

    i still say an open discussion is better than telling doubting people to *just accept what we tell you*

    that just breeds contempt and rebellion. and rightly so.

  20. Well, this point we will have to agree to disagree, because I see a class like is what would breed contempt and rebellion. There just simply isn’t a need for it.

    Those answers can be found on-line. And if one is basing their testimony on the ‘answers’ to those questions, then their testimony will fall apart and they will fall with it. It’s no different than all the religions that look to the ‘provable’ to ‘decide’ whether or not to believe in Christ.

    Either the Holy Spirit bears testimony to you, or He doesn’t. That is the only place a person’s testimony can and should come from. If it comes from anywhere else, it’s faulty. And if all it takes is for a Prophet or the human element of the Church to make a mistake to break your testimony, then it will be broken.

    Once a person has a testimony, there really is no reason at all to focus on these negative things. It bears no fruit. It takes one’s mind away from the actual day to day living of the gospel. And I’m not saying anyone should be an atomoton, but we are supposed to go forward in faith and be busy doing that which we are called to do. Receive our ordinances in the House of the Lord, Feed the poor, succor those who need succoring, learn the Gospel (not learn what all the faults and failings are of other people, including Prophets)…

    These ARE the last days. It doesn’t help anyone to ‘Follow the Prophet’ if they are focusing on the Prophet’s human weaknesses and failings. We’re supposed to love each other and do our best to look past each other’s failings.

    The children of Israel focused on Moses’ faults and those that did not repent were slain or died in the desert without ever seeing the Promised Land. The Prophets are given to us for a purpose, and that purpose isn’t to question them. People had plenty of hard issues about Moses…

    Ours is a Gospel of obedience. Jesus was our example and He did the will of the Father, even in the garden where He pleaded for the cup to pass… but he followed and obeyed and made a way for us all to be saved.

    I have found all the answers to the questions I still had after baptism by LIVING the Gospel and following the teachings of the Church. No good thing has come into my life by questioning what I already know. That is Satan coming to steal the seed that was planted. He’s not going to steal my seed. I’m going to water it and nourish it, and that is done by learning and living Gospel truths.

    We grow by focusing on what is right, not what is ‘wrong’ in our own minds. My spirit and testimony are rock solid because I feed them and go forward with what I do know. And then what I don’t know gets answered along the way in sometimes some pretty unexpected ways. I have yet to not get an answer to a troubling issue when I’m focused on following the commandments. It took about a year and a half to get my answer on one issue that troubled me a great deal. But I got it. And I now understand it. And no class would have helped with that. No talking endlessly about it would have helped. I had to be living the Gospel and proceeding by and in faith to get it. And willing to accept it whether or not I got an answer or not.

    That’s what faith is all about. You act in faith and then get the confirmation. And it’s not blind faith… it is knowledge that comes from the Holy Ghost. But you have to ask for it with an open and sincere mind, knowing that you will follow that answer EVEN IF YOU DON’T LIKE IT. Otherwise all you’re doing is attempting to mold God into your image, instead of humbling yourself and letting Him mold you into His.

    If your prayer is done while in your mind you know you aren’t going to follow that answer if you don’t like it… no answer will be forthcoming. And that for your own good.

    Once you have gotten that answer, the only thing you do by questioning it is allow the Devil to steal the seed sown in you. God is not going to cause you to question what He has already told you is true… only Satan will cause that.

    The Sower and the Seed…. it’s up to us to make ourselves good rich fertile ground where the seed can be sown and grow. It grows by nourishing it, (prayer, Scripture reading, pondering, and meditating), not by questioning it. I’m not saying a person should never question… what I’m saying is to focus on what you do know and DO it and as you do your mind and spirit will become prepared for more and those answers will come.

    It’s all about obedience…

    Another long answer by the long-winded one…. 😉

  21. Joy said: “It’s no different than all the religions that look to the ‘provable’ to ‘decide’ whether or not to believe in Christ.”

    You mean like Paul does in I Corinthians 15?

    Joy, I actually don’t disagree with your comment all that much. I do believe that we can “go in faith” even while we have doubts. We can still trust God even when we’re not all that sure. Our trust may be shaky but it’s still trust, and just like learning to drive, eventually we get more secure and stable.

    But I think where Jay and Kullervo are coming from is that they’ve had the car break down on them. So now they’ve gotten out on the side of the road and are looking at the engine. When they first started they wouldn’t have understood anything about how the engine works, but now they do. They can’t necessarily continue to “go in faith” because they think the car might be running on hamsters. The car has certainly gotten them somewhere, but not as far as they thought it would have, they think it might be because of the hamsters.

    so their question isn’t should I keep “going”. It’s more like “are hamsters really the best way to go?” They seem to work okay for people who don’t know about them, but what about people who do?

    My apology for the analogy No offense was intended to hamsters of the LDS church.

  22. oops I meant to say no offense intended to hamsters OR the LDS church.

    BTW Joy, You should check it out; I admitted to being an anti-Mormon. 😉

  23. I’m glad you finally admitted it. I’ve know it since your first post. I don’t need to click the link.

    And you don’t need to intend to insult the Church, it just seems to come naturally. And I love yet another Scripture pulled out of context. I’ve been in the churches you attend. And there is some truth in them. But they are the ones running on hamsters. And once Kullervo has seen enough of them he’ll be back. Hopefully he’ll bring you with him. 😉

    My testimony is built on the Rock of Jesus Christ by the Testimony of the Holy Ghost (not carefully crafted teachings of men) and neither you or Satan can turn me into hard ground. 🙂

  24. Jayleen, thanks for another direct question. When I knew the LDS Church was true I didn’t “think” about anything that was said in Sunday school or Priesthood. I took everything on face value. I was lazy in my testimony because I thought I already knew! I even thought that anti-LDS were making things up to “bash” the Church (they do sometimes).

    Now I know many critiques against the LDS Church are not fabricated. Because the LDS Church has not had an open dialog about them, I am forced to wrestle with them in my own mind. I may put them in a context that is incorrect, needlessly weakening my faith. But I don’t have any alternative; the LDS Church doesn’t want to talk about them.

    I have to decide to follow my heart or my mind. I have to reconcile that the one true Church can still be true while having flaws. I have to come to the peace with the fact that prophets can say outrageously stupid things. Before it didn’t even occur to me this was possible. I know now this was a naïve assumption on my part.

    I guess nothing has changed but my understanding. I was naïve, thinking, “All was well”. All was well until I tripped into LDS history. I had part of it, the good part. What were not presented to me were the not so good or bad parts. I would rather know the whole history than only part of it.

    Now that I am beginning to know the whole history of the Church, my testimony is challenged. I described it to my wife as having a beautiful new car that I took care of meticulously and then woke up one day to find the shine gone a little rust on the bumper. It just didn’t excite me anymore (this makes me very sad).

    I have had too many spiritual experiences in my life, miracles you could say, to doubt that God lives and that he answers my prayers. I have had all these experiences while being an active LDS member. This is why I say I believe in the LDS Church still. If I hadn’t had these experiences, I would probably be gone, carried down the anti-LDS route by the great tide of angry anti-Mormons on the Internet.

    However, even though I have not left, I find that I listen with different ears and think with a new mind when I hear my leaders speak. I’m not convinced yet if this is good or bad. Where before I would accept whatever calling I was asked to do, now I think about it first. I have stopped going out with the missionaries because I fear they will ask me to bear testimony to something I am struggling with. This is how my life has become affected by the whole story of LDS history. If I had been taught these things before over time maybe they would not have concerned me, but that’s not how it happened.

    There is something good here in the LDS Church. We do many things right. I believe we have many true doctrines and much to be proud of. I know I did feel something many years ago when I became firm in my testimony. I probably made a mistake in thinking I could never be swayed. I am regaining parts of my testimony, but it seems unlikely I will ever look at the LDS Church the same as I did.

  25. I don’t think it’s a matter of not wanting to talk about them… I really don’t. I really think it’s a matter of focus. What we focus on does grow. Where our treasure is, there will our heart be also.

    I do not wish to harm you, but to help you. As you’ve seen I’m very direct. So here goes…

    Look at what focusing on these things is doing to your life… and your testimony and ergo your Priesthood. You (and many others) are so wrapped up in cataloging and analyzing the mistakes, faults and failures of Prophets that it is massively interfering with your missionary work as a member. Just what Satan wants. You say if you had heard these things over and over you may not feel as you do now… but as I said above, what is focused on grows. Jesus didn’t focus on the Prophet’s mistakes… The Scriptures mention them and move on.

    There is work to be done. I support and sustain my Bishop even when I *know* he is wrong. Why? Because he’s human and he needs to grow just as I do. What is up to me is how I respond. What *I* do. I understand you’ve found out that the leaders of the Church are human… they do say stupid things sometimes. So did Abraham, Isaac and Jacob… Adam and Peter and all the rest.

    I believe that while you may not look at the Church the same way again, that you will have a stronger testimony than ever when you work through this. What you will see is what a truly marvelous work and a wonder our Father is doing using mere mortals… That is the greatest miracle of all with the exception of the Atonement.

    Ponder that… cherish that… it means there is hope for you and me. I have said so many stupid things in my life I couldn’t fit them in the Grand Canyon… but the Lord can still call me to a great calling and as I submit my will to His, He can use me to accomplish great things. To me it is SUCH a relief to know our Prophets aren’t perfect. That they are every bit as human as I am.

    I am going to do great things for the Kingdom of God in SPITE of my own stupidity. Because I have a willing heart. And every time I go to the Temple, I love those people even more because I know they are just like me. And it is SO humbling to know that Father can use people just like me to build up His Kingdom on earth.

    And I know that just like all the Prophets and Saints before me… I will get another chance when I fall flat on my face. Which is sometimes daily.

    The more human I realize our leaders are, the more I love them and the more I realize this Church is a miracle. Don’t let the failures of mere humans cause you to fall short of who Father wants YOU to be. And remember the next time you say something really stupid… He can still use you and He still loves you and you’re not lost.;)

    You get another chance… and another… and another… The Church is perfect… the mortals who run it aren’t. But when I look at Gordon B. Hinckley and Thomas Monson and the rest of our leaders… I see the cream of the crop. But I still see humans… frail and mortal.

    Don’t turn down callings just because those who make the calling may not be perfect. Trust that the Lord is using imperfect people to help to perfect YOU (and while the leader may not have gone about giving the calling as he should have, trust that the Lord is still behind it and be obedient). As we simply trust and obey, He will reward us. Only we can work out our OWN salvation with fear and trembling. No one else can do it for us. And if they are failing… the Lord will deal with it. If a call is extended to a ‘wrong’ person, the Lord will deal with that too.

    At least you will be able to stand up and look Him in the eye and say you did your best. You tried and leaned on Him for the strength to do the calling.

    I encourage you to look at the Church with your new eyes and see it as even more the miracle that it is. Mere mortals leading this Church to spread over the face of the earth until one day all will be perfected in Him… That’s what the Atonement is all about. Christ standing in for us… taking our sins and stupid mistakes upon Himself so that Father sees us through Christ’s perfection. And that means the leaders who said stupid things too. The Atonement covers us all. Whether or not they repent is ultimately up to them, just as our repentance is up to us.

    We may not always like what Church leaders say and do, but we are not to speak evil of the Lord’s annointed.

    I posted about getting a Priesthood blessing the other night and how incredibly powerful it was. I can assure you that the man who gave it to me was very human… and doesn’t always live according to Gospel standards. But as he administered that blessing, we both ended up in tears and the Spirit was there SO strong that almost a week later I am still feeling the power of it.

    So do I focus on all the things about this brother that make him falible? Or do I instead let him be a conduit for the Lord and receive that powerful blessing that has changed my immediate life and will influence me for good for a long time to come?

    I know what I choose. 🙂

    Focus on the good… do YOUR best… and allow the Lord to do a marvelous work and wonder through you, a mere mortal. Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. Your wife and children, if you have them, need their Priesthood holder father… and in these last days, we don’t need any more casualties to the antis and the adversary.

    Feed that seed good food.. positive food… The Holy Ghost CAN restore your testimony stronger than ever.

  26. I followed your link and found this question Jay. It is a good question and to me this would never happen. I disagree with Jayleen and would say that the church is very afraid of open forum. The open forum style would not let the church have any say on what questions were asked and then on the flip side what answers were given. Those that would go to this forum thinking they had no questions would most likely leave there having questions or have questions come up while being in the forum.

    Jayleen, before I respond to any of your responses I wanted to tell you a bit about me. I married a mormon that was born and raised in the church. I converted about 14 months ago after going through the talks with the missionaries twice. I had that warm fuzzy feeling that you hear people talk about for a while…but then it faded. I couldnt figure out why and then I started reading, you know that thing that “good mormons” arent supposed to do. I started looking outside the church for answers and have been finding quite a few. So now I am with Kullervo and others in being inactive. My wife is more towards inactive than active currently as well. So that is a little about me.

    Now, the responses that you have given, to me are “cookie cutter” answers that any mormon could and would give to someone that is questioning anything about the church. If you can get them to stop thinking for themselves and start thinking like the church wants you to again then of course their “testimony” will return.

    I dont understand why people go along with what people say when they know for a fact they are wrong.

  27. Oh, forgot to add this in too…the fact that you wont go to Dando’s site…which I think you would get some good reading if nothing else out of, because you know he is Anti Mormon is sad to me.

  28. to her credit, Joy has read quite a bit of my blog. It’s really not all that much of an “anti-mormon” blog. If someone’s testimony were actually shaken by *anything* I write I would be really surprised. I do my best *not* to shake testimonies.

    (Joy, thanks for that *__* thing, that’s cool)

  29. Draygon – I attended Evangelistic churches for 20 years… they have nothing whatsoever to offer me. I spent 20 years as an anti-mormon… I now know better. Because I dared to not only read, but look up what the antis don’t want you to. They have many arguments that have footnotes making them appear legit… but you follow the footnote and it leads to a publication of someone’s opinion with no facts whatsoever. BUT I wouldn’t care what the antis say at this point. They also twist, distort and outright lie. I’ve been on both sides and studied both sides thoroughly… I know truth. I KNOW what I know not from a warm fuzzy feeling but from a powerful witness direct from the Holy Ghost. I KNOW Heavenly Father and I KNOW Jesus Christ.

    And what you said about the Church and the forum and them not being able to control it is ridiculous. They would have more control if they oversaw the forum than leaving people to troll the internet. Control is not what they are looking for. I’m sorry you see it that way. I’ve never felt more freedom that since I joined the LDS Church.

    It does not surprise me your testimony left. The parable of the sower and the seed. Lehis dream of the large and spacious building.

    I won’t go to Dando’s site because I spent a lot of time there too… enough to know his intent and enough to know I don’t need to fill my mind with his garbage teaching. I listened to that kind of garbage teaching for 20 years… enough is enough. Once a person knows something as fact, what point is there in wasting time with error?

    You said, “I dont understand why people go along with what people say when they know for a fact they are wrong.”

    Exactly… exactly precisely… elementary watson.

  30. I didnt know about your past and so if I insulted you I am sorry, that was not my intent.

    What you quoted me at the end though is what I dont understand. You said you know they are wrong (the church leaders) but yet, you still go along with it? As corney as it sounds if someone told you to jump off a bridge, and you knew it was wrong, would you still do it?

    I am in the military so I know what it is like to have to do things that you dont always agree with but you do it because your told to do it by your superiors. There is a limit to that though, you dont do anything that is ethicly (sp) wrong.

    I am not anti mormon, I just have a strong feeling of what I now know and even though I may not agree with it, I am not going to tell my wife she is wrong.

    I felt more “under control” when I was actively going to church than I ever felt in the military. I know I may sound anti mormon, Ill say that is because of how things in my life are going lately, its hard to be full of great thoughts when your wife tells you that she will leave you if you leave the church.

  31. Draygon… I’m sorry you’re having trouble, but I understand what your wife said as I wouldn’t want to be with someone who couldn’t offer me eternity. Don’t you think she deserves a Priesthood holder who can give her blessings and offer her eternity? That being said, I don’t agree with her threat. But I know how upset I would be. She’s apparently not in a place where she can extend her faith in that area.

    I’m also sorry you see obeying Christ as being controlled. Name one thing the Church would have you do that would harm your life… or make you a worse person.

    I find most people who leave the Church do so because it is a lot of work and effort and they prefer an easier path to follow.

    And me quoting you was my way of telling you you’re ‘projecting’ and it is you who are following what you know aren’t facts.

    And yes… if I believed God wanted me to jump off a cliff I would. Just like Abraham obeyed by offering up Isaac. Abraham knew that the Lord would provide a different sacrifice or would be able to raise him from the dead… It’s called obedience and God tests people all the time. Not with that extreme of a test, but He wants us to trust Him and wants us to know for ourselves that we are willing.

    But I also know NONE of the Church leaders would ask such a thing. So do you… so why would you insinuate they would? I’ve never had a Church leader ask me to do something that would hurt me.

    Callings help me stretch and grow and become more Christlike. For me the Church is a joy… maybe you should give it another try and open your heart to growth. Look at it from an eternal perspective.

  32. I dont see obeying Christ as being controlled, I do disagree with a few things now after focusing more on the bible and less on the BoM. I also (after stepping back and looking at the church) think that the church puts more infasis on warshiping and obeyging Christ than they do God.

    I also believe that we were not put here on earth to be punished for living and experiencing life.

  33. Draygon – You and I don’t seem to be communicating very well. How is the Church controlling you? Please answer my questions. What did the Church ask you to do that woudn’t make you a better person? How is your freedom obstructed by the Church?

    Punished for “living and experiencing life’? What does that mean and in what context do you mean?

    Do you mean you want to live sinful now and not have to answer to those pesky Bishops? I’m really not following you.

  34. Man, that class would be cool. I thought about that during EQ this week where we talked about the first vision.

  35. Here is the English version of an article on science and Mormonism that I published awhile ago in my blog “Interlingua multilingue”:

    Science and the Mormons
    The Mormons are a religious sect that emerged from Christianity in the United States in the Nineteenth Century. They added to the Bible their own scripture, the Book of Mormon, translated by Joseph Smith from an original text in a language he called Reformed Egyptian. According to the mythology of the Mormons, in 1827 the angel Moroni gave Smith these texts, which were engraved on golden tables. Smith could understand them without learning their language through the divine magic of two special lenses that he used to read them while he translated them.
    Smith and his followers were persecuted by traditional Christians, who forced them to travel slowly and with great sacrifices until they reached what is now Utah, where their descendants dominate the religious and social life of this American state.
    According to the Mormons, the Indians of the Americas came from Egypt more than 2,000 (two thousand) years ago. They used this myth to convert many Indians to their religion. “We were taught that all the blessings of our Hebrew ancestors made us a special people,” said Jose a Loyaza, a lawyer in Salt Lake City, the capital of Utah. “And this identity gave us a sense of transcendental affiliation, a special identity with God.” But Loyaza gradually learned that there was another outrageous irony to his faith.
    He rejected his religion after learning that evidence provided by comparative DNA studies between American Indians and Asians conclusively proved that the first humans that migrated to the Americas came not from the Middle East but from Asia.
    For the Mormons this genetic confirmation of the origin of the Indians in the Americas is a fundamental collision of science against religion. It is in direct conflict with the Book of Mormon, which, according to their religion, is a completely error-free historical work that must be interpreted literally.
    The Book of Mormon is also fundamentally racist. It narrates that a tribe of Hebrews from Jeruselem went to the Americas in 600 B.C. and split up into two groups, the Nephites and the Lamanites. The Nephites carried the “true” religion to the new world and were in constant conflict with the Lamanites, who practiced idolatry. The Nephites were white (in 1980 the Mormons changed the word to “pure”), and the Lamanites received from God “The curse of blackness.”
    The Book of Mormon also narrates that in 385 A.D. the Lamanites exterminated all the other Hebrews and became the principal ancestors of the American Indians. But the Mormons insist that if the Lamanites returned to the “true” religion (Mormonism, quite naturally), their skin would eventually become white like the skin of the Nephites that their ancestors had exterminated.
    But despite these outrageous racist insults, many Indians and Polynesians (who also, according to the Mormons, are the descendants of the Lamanites) converted to Mormonism instead of telling the Mormons to go f*&% themselves. (Through some perverse mechanism in human psychology, these converts are like homosexual priests who support the Roman catholic church or other gay people who support any type of Christianity.)
    “The fiction that I was a Lamanite,” said Damon Kali, a lawyer in Sunnyvale, California, whose ancestors came from Polynesian islands, “was the principal reason that I converted to Mormonism.” He had been a missionary for the Mormans [Mormons] before he discovered that genetic evidence proved that the Lamanites were only a religious myth, and he could not continue his efforts to convert others to Mormonism.
    Officially the Mormon church insists that nothing in the Book of Mormon is incompatible with the genetic evidence. Some Mormons are now saying that the Levites were a small group of Hebrews that went to Central America and after many generations of marrying with the natives they met, their Hebrew DNA disappeared into the DNA of their neighbors.
    In 2002, officers of the church started a trial to excommunicate Thomas W. Murphy, a professor of anthropology at Edmonds Community College in Washington, an American state at the extreme northwest of the continental United States.
    His trial attracted a lot of attention in the American public communications media, which ridiculed the church and insisted that Murphy was the Galileo of Mormonism. The general contempt provoked by this publicity seriously embarrassed the officers of the church, and they stopped the trial.

  36. Not a completely objective report.

    Not all Mormons believe the Book of Mormon must be interpreted literally. There is a growing number of us that look at it as a book with good stories that probably didn’t happen but that are inspiring nonetheless. There is room for a scientifically oriented LDS member to accept the explanation the LDS Church gives for the DNA problem, however, many that are aware of the issue find the explanation possible but rather improbable.

    If you post in the future please don’t post the same comment twice.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: Logo

You are commenting using your account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s


%d bloggers like this: